Lazy Peachick

[Peafowlssssssss]

Othman, is there any way that you can obtain amprolium? It is widely obtainable here, so if you cannot find it, I can perhaps mail you some. You can use it as a preventative in order to prevent and control outbreaks of coccidia.

As Zaz reminded me yesterday, you can't use amprolium at the same time as the sulfa drug that you are now giving the sick birds, but you can administer it to the rest of your flock, and then use it preventatively in the future. @casportpony can explain this better than I can. She will also probably want permission to use those poo pics on her normal/abnormal poo thread, if you do not mind. One of the biggest benefits to this forum is the ability to communicate helpful information to others.

Coccidia is most dangerous to the young peas, as the adults' immune systems gradually develop the ability to manage coccidia. However peas of any age can become ill from coccidia when there is an outbreak, particularly if they are stressed or ill from some other cause, such as worms or perhaps a respiratory illness.

I hope your birds are beginning to improve, and that no new sick ones have turned up. It would be wise to check poo for the lot of them, and for those not showing signs of illness, treat with amprolium to be safe.

Good Morning, Thank you so much for your help, the birds look better today(if i'm not mistaken), i will upload recent video for them, i think i could find amrolium here, can i give them amrolium monthly or what? I have talked with my vet who usually worm my adult birds(with injections), he will come on Friday so i have to wait.

Of course Kathy can use these pictures, and here are some new poop pictures, from the two sick birds:

The first one almost look normal isn't?

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

This isn't going to help you right now. If you have access to ebay, I just got albendazole, 72, 400mg tablets for $35. It comes from Indonesia so you can probably get it there. Also, if you put apple cider vinegar in the water of your pea babies until they are adults, or even always, it will cut down on the problems with parasites and cocci. It won't cure them or completely keep them from getting either, but it sure helps. You can't do this when medicating them though.

Did i use albendazole as a treat for coccidia or what? It could be available here. How many apple cider vinegar should i put for every litre?

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

They are back to their childhood place, aren't they look good? Please say yes

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

By the way, i have already put Medicox(coccidia treat) in the other birds water (they are 7), thought this would be fine, should i stop and wait till i find amprolium?

 

[Garden Peas]

(My comments in blue)

The pile of poo on the white feather looks good. The yellow liquid poo in the background is worrisome and not normal.




The yellow, runny, mucousy poo in this picture worries me:

Let me try to explain... I know it is confusing.

There are two different issues... worms and coccidia. For the most part, they are treated with different medications. Both worms and coccidia damage the birds' digestive systems and intestinal tracts.

Worms are treated with wormers. I have been using "fenbendazole" (one brand name for this medication in the US is "Safeguard", another is "Panacur."). @Trefoil has just written of "albendazole" which I am not familiar with, but I did find discussed on Wikipedia just now. Some wormers have names that end in "azole." Ivermectin is another, different kind of antiparasitic medication used against worms, however it is believed to not necessarily be effective against some worms to which peafowl are susceptible. It still works against mites (external parasites), so there are still uses for it.

Coccidia are protozoa -- a different kind of organism from worms. Coccidia are treated and prevented with "coccidiostat" medications. There are different kinds of coccidiostats. The amprolium we have been discussing is one kind which works against many, but not all, strains of coccidia. Sulfadimethoxine is an antibiotic which is effective against bacteria, but which will also kill some strains of protozoa -- some of the strains of coccidia.

Amprolium is often included in chick feed because chicks are highly susceptible to coccidia. It is also available to use separately as a preventative or when an outbreak occurs, to treat the condition. When a chick feed says on the label that it it "medicated" feed, that often (at least in the U.S.) indicates it contains amprolium.

Yes, you could give the amprolium monthly, or on some regular schedule. You can put it in the water. Usually when it is given as a preventative, the dosage is smaller. When given to treat sick birds, the dosage is higher. @casportpony has a list of all the dosages posted in different threads and I think linked at the bottom of her posts. Worming should also be done preventatively on a regular basis... I think you are doing that already?

I hope this helps.

Vets here in the U.S. typically check fecal samples for both worms (worms, worm segments, worm eggs) and for protozoal cysts, which can only be seen with a microscope. That helps guide the decision whether to treat for worms or for coccidia or both.

 

[Garden Peas]

By the way, i have already put Medicox(coccidia treat) in the other birds water (they are 7), thought this would be fine, should i stop and wait till i find amprolium?

I think it will be fine. After you finish, you may wish to give them some probiotics and vitamin supplements.

 

[Garden Peas]

They are back to their childhood place, aren't they look good? Please say yes

They do look like they are feeling better, good news

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

Let me try to explain... I know it is confusing.

There are two different issues... worms and coccidia. For the most part, they are treated with different medications. Both worms and coccidia damage the birds' digestive systems and intestinal tracts.

Worms are treated with wormers. I have been using "fenbendazole" (one brand name for this medication in the US is "Safeguard", another is "Panacur."). @Trefoil has just written of "albendazole" which I am not familiar with, but I did find discussed on Wikipedia just now. Some wormers have names that end in "azole." Ivermectin is another, different kind of antiparasitic medication used against worms, however it is believed to not necessarily be effective against some worms to which peafowl are susceptible. It still works against mites (external parasites), so there are still uses for it.

Coccidia are protozoa -- a different kind of organism from worms. Coccidia are treated and prevented with "coccidiostat" medications. There are different kinds of coccidiostats. The amprolium we have been discussing is one kind which works against many, but not all, strains of coccidia. Sulfadimethoxine is an antibiotic which is effective against bacteria, but which will also kill some strains of protozoa -- some of the strains of coccidia.

Amprolium is often included in chick feed because chicks are highly susceptible to coccidia. It is also available to use separately as a preventative or when an outbreak occurs, to treat the condition. When a chick feed says on the label that it it "medicated" feed, that often (at least in the U.S.) indicates it contains amprolium.

Yes, you could give the amprolium monthly, or on some regular schedule. You can put it in the water. Usually when it is given as a preventative, the dosage is smaller. When given to treat sick birds, the dosage is higher. @casportpony has a list of all the dosages posted in different threads and I think linked at the bottom of her posts. Worming should also be done preventatively on a regular basis... I think you are doing that already?

I hope this helps.

Vets here in the U.S. typically check fecal samples for both worms (worms, worm segments, worm eggs) and for protozoal cysts, which can only be seen with a microscope. That helps guide the decision whether to treat for worms or for coccidia or both.

I do have a worming schedule for my birds, last time i wormed them 2 months ago, can peafowls get worms from eating live worms? I have seen few tiny worms in their coop, not sure if some of them ate it. I will get Amprolium and i will use every month, and i think i'm going to change their feed, i don't trust these local brands, i will get back to get Versele Laga chick starter feed, its one of the few internationally brands that sold here, last year chicks was doing great on it. Vets here could check fecal samples, but i know i have to wait a long time for that, everytime i visit these vets they ask to come later, i know they would like to care for dogs and cats more, also they will cost a lot with almost doing nothing.

 

[Garden Peas]

I do have a worming schedule for my birds, last time i wormed them 2 months ago, can peafowls get worms from eating live worms? I have seen few tiny worms in their coop, not sure if some of them ate it. I will get Amprolium and i will use every month, and i think i'm going to change their feed, i don't trust these local brands, i will get back to get Versele Laga chick starter feed, its one of the few internationally brands that sold here, last year chicks was doing great on it. Vets here could check fecal samples, but i know i have to wait a long time for that, everytime i visit these vets they ask to come later, i know they would like to care for dogs and cats more, also they will cost a lot with almost doing nothing.

Good that you have a worming schedule, bad that you are seeing tiny worms in poo. Or do you mean you saw worms in their coop, where the birds live? They can get worms from worm eggs practically anywhere, but especially in other bird or animal poo. However, if they eat a live worm (like an earthworm), it should be digested as it passes through the system, so it should not be visible in their poo. If there are worms visible in the bird's poo, those worms probably grew inside the bird from eggs, and are infesting the bird as a parasite. These are parasite worms, not earthworms or beneficial worms. If you see tiny worms in the coop, I would try to figure out where those worms are coming from... are they worms that were passed out by a bird in its poo? Or are they something like an earthworm that the birds dug up while rooting around in the dirt?

If a bird eats earthworms (like the worms from a garden), it is not necessarily bad, but it can get protozoa from the worms which can live in the bird and make it ill. The protozoa are controlled by the coccidiostats like amprolium and the antibiotic/anticoccidiostat sulfadimethoxone.

Yes, vets are expensive, and even here in the U.S., some are more helpful than others. Some vets here will run a fecal and only charge a small amount of money, and will tell the owner the results. Others are very expensive. And few vets here know anything about birds, so it can be very difficult to get help with the birds.

Sometimes treating with wormers and coccidiostats is enough... it just depends. If there is good vet advice available, then of course that is best. But if not, it helps if you are able to figure out things from the clues the birds give you, such as the lethargy, droopy wings, and abnormal poo.

If, by the way, you ever do see tiny worms in the poo, you should immediately worm the flock, regardless of whether the flock has been wormed... unless it is just a day or two later, while they birds may still be expelling the worms which have died as a result of treatment.

Not all wormers are equally effective on all kinds of worms. If birds are not improving after treatment with one wormer, sometimes it is helpful to change to another. Ivermectin is not thought to be as useful against worms as it once may have been, so it may be better to start with fenbendazole, or perhaps the one Trefoil mentioned, albendazole. It would be good to find out what wormer your vet has been using. If he has only been using Ivermectin, you should worm again with a different wormer, to make sure you are effectively controlling the parasites. I'm sure @casportpony has more suggestions, too!

I hope your birds continue to improve.

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

Good that you have a worming schedule, bad that you are seeing tiny worms in poo. Or do you mean you saw worms in their coop, where the birds live? They can get worms from worm eggs practically anywhere, but especially in other bird or animal poo. However, if they eat a live worm (like an earthworm), it should be digested as it passes through the system, so it should not be visible in their poo. If there are worms visible in the bird's poo, those worms probably grew inside the bird from eggs, and are infesting the bird as a parasite. These are parasite worms, not earthworms or beneficial worms. If you see tiny worms in the coop, I would try to figure out where those worms are coming from... are they worms that were passed out by a bird in its poo? Or are they something like an earthworm that the birds dug up while rooting around in the dirt?

If a bird eats earthworms (like the worms from a garden), it is not necessarily bad, but it can get protozoa from the worms which can live in the bird and make it ill. The protozoa are controlled by the coccidiostats like amprolium and the antibiotic/anticoccidiostat sulfadimethoxone.

Yes, vets are expensive, and even here in the U.S., some are more helpful than others. Some vets here will run a fecal and only charge a small amount of money, and will tell the owner the results. Others are very expensive. And few vets here know anything about birds, so it can be very difficult to get help with the birds.

Sometimes treating with wormers and coccidiostats is enough... it just depends. If there is good vet advice available, then of course that is best. But if not, it helps if you are able to figure out things from the clues the birds give you, such as the lethargy, droopy wings, and abnormal poo.

If, by the way, you ever do see tiny worms in the poo, you should immediately worm the flock, regardless of whether the flock has been wormed... unless it is just a day or two later, while they birds may still be expelling the worms which have died as a result of treatment.

Not all wormers are equally effective on all kinds of worms. If birds are not improving after treatment with one wormer, sometimes it is helpful to change to another. Ivermectin is not thought to be as useful against worms as it once may have been, so it may be better to start with fenbendazole, or perhaps the one Trefoil mentioned, albendazole. It would be good to find out what wormer your vet has been using. If he has only been using Ivermectin, you should worm again with a different wormer, to make sure you are effectively controlling the parasites. I'm sure @casportpony has more suggestions, too!

I hope your birds continue to improve.

I meant worms in their coop, we have big black beetles in our backyard where my birds are, they are many, when i remove a plate from the ground i can see worms under it, i know these worms are beetles didn't develop yet, i don't have any other birds than peafowls, i will ask him on Friday which wormer he use.


Thank you so much again for your help, i appreciate every single word you wrote for me