Legislation to improve lives of egg laying hens

[OldGuy43]

Why is the science behind good animal husbandry being decided by over emotional voters? This stuff should not in any way be something voters should be voting on and is an abuse of the referendum system, why have representatives?

Let the science decide on this one, keep the emotions out.

Oh yes! Heaven forbid that the people should have to think for themselves.

Sorry, no coffee yet.

 

[chickened]

Another industry being forced out of the country along with the jobs in the making. Looks like Mexico will be furnishing us with our eggs. When the cost of eggs is too high here we simply will import them. Just curious where the Feds get authority to do this? We already have good animal husbandry laws this proposal has nothing to do with health but all to do with emotions. I have seen these egg factories they are state of the art and the hens are well cared for. Just another waste of taxpayers time and money. This is not the U.K. where they have already killed thier economy through over regulation.

ETA anything supported by the HSUS is bad for any chicken owner as ownership itself is not supported by them.

 

[AquaEyes]

Another industry being forced out of the country along with the jobs in the making. Looks like Mexico will be furnishing us with our eggs. When the cost of eggs is too high here we simply will import them. Just curious where the Feds get authority to do this? We already have good animal husbandry laws this proposal has nothing to do with health but all to do with emotions. I have seen these egg factories they are state of the art and the hens are well cared for. Just another waste of taxpayers time and money. This is not the U.K. where they have already killed thier economy through over regulation.

ETA anything supported by the HSUS is bad for any chicken owner as ownership itself is not supported by them.

The cost of eggs today is ridiculously low, because of ultra-intensive and non-sustainable rearing practices.

I did some interesting quick research. In 1961, the average price of a dozen eggs in this country was $0.57. I then used the inflation calculator link provided on http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodfaq5.html#inflation to figure out what $0.57 equals in today's dollar. I got $4.29. This seems to be about what the "high-end" truly free-range organic eggs cost today. Hmmmm.....

So to say this will "drive up the prices of eggs" is only partially correct. It will "drive them up" to be higher than the unnaturally low price they are today. Americans spend a lower percentage of their income on food today than ever before, less than half as compared to 1950, and less than most other industrialized nations, and we show it in our waistlines -- foods that SHOULD be more expensive and SHOULD be eaten less frequently are now abundant and eaten too often. Basically, we've gotten used to unnaturally cheap, abundant and unhealthy forms of animal protein as a result of non-sustainable and increasingly perceived as non-ethical food production practices. I think it's time we start examining how we produce food, its effects on us, and how long current systems will last.

 

[RHRanch]

The cost of eggs today is ridiculously low, because of ultra-intensive and non-sustainable rearing practices.

I did some interesting quick research. In 1961, the average price of a dozen eggs in this country was $0.57. I then used the inflation calculator link provided on http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodfaq5.html#inflation to figure out what $0.57 equals in today's dollar. I got $4.29. This seems to be about what the "high-end" truly free-range organic eggs cost today. Hmmmm.....

So to say this will "drive up the prices of eggs" is only partially correct. It will "drive them up" to be higher than the unnaturally low price they are today. Americans spend a lower percentage of their income on food today than ever before, less than half as compared to 1950, and less than most other industrialized nations, and we show it in our waistlines -- foods that SHOULD be more expensive and SHOULD be eaten less frequently are now abundant and eaten too often. Basically, we've gotten used to unnaturally cheap, abundant and unhealthy forms of animal protein as a result of non-sustainable and increasingly perceived as non-ethical food production practices. I think it's time we start examining how we produce food, its effects on us, and how long current systems will last.

Thank You! As always, you go the extra mile to support your position!

 

[GardenerGal]

"Battery" eggs here cost 99 cents a dozen, compared to $3-$4 a dozen for "cage-free, antibiotics-free, 'freeranging'" eggs. It is not surprising that budget-limited consumers are buying the cheapest foods.

It's unfortunate, and scary, that the motivation for this bill wasn't really humaneness, but profit on the side of the United Egg Producers. They seem to be exploiting the SPCA's actual animal welfare support to give the appearance that they are interested in compassion, too. Why should I be surprised? Profit is the motivator for the corporate world. Hey, business is business, right? If only business could take into consideration that animals are sentient and should be treated with humaneness.

 

[chickened]

That is very interesting. I would liketo see what the production and feed to egg ratio was then.
I think that the hens that are used in mass production have been developed by man for egg production and it is not really fair to come along after all the advancements and say "Ok now that you have created this artificial breed of bird you have to treat them in a way that they were not intended to be treated by design because I feel they are being mistreated" These birds do exactly what they are made for and that is to produce eggs and they do it better than what any BYCer can claim and now someone wants to tell me they are mistreated. These hens would not lay as well as they do if they are being mistreated and I have yet to see any data showing otherwise. Who here keeps their coop at a constant temperature or provides the best feed available to their birds?

This whole movement is based on a human emotion somehow applied to chicken. Ridiculous!! I have seen worse abuse at the hands of private owners. I have a white leghorn production hen and she is freeranged and is still the wildest wackiest bird I own, it is as if she needs confinement to settle down and she lays an egg almost every day.

And as with any legislation the devil will be in the details. There will be so much junk attached that the intent of the bill will be lost.

The cost of eggs today is ridiculously low, because of ultra-intensive and non-sustainable rearing practices.

.

I did some interesting quick research. In 1961, the average price of a dozen eggs in this country was $0.57. I then used the inflation calculator link provided on http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodfaq5.html#inflation to figure out what $0.57 equals in today's dollar. I got $4.29. This seems to be about what the "high-end" truly free-range organic eggs cost today. Hmmmm.....

So to say this will "drive up the prices of eggs" is only partially correct. It will "drive them up" to be higher than the unnaturally low price they are today. Americans spend a lower percentage of their income on food today than ever before, less than half as compared to 1950, and less than most other industrialized nations, and we show it in our waistlines -- foods that SHOULD be more expensive and SHOULD be eaten less frequently are now abundant and eaten too often. Basically, we've gotten used to unnaturally cheap, abundant and unhealthy forms of animal protein as a result of non-sustainable and increasingly perceived as non-ethical food production practices. I think it's time we start examining how we produce food, its effects on us, and how long current systems will last.

 

[RHRanch]

That is very interesting. I would liketo see what the production and feed to egg ratio was then.
I think that the hens that are used in mass production have been developed by man for egg production and it is not really fair to come along after all the advancements and say "Ok now that you have created this artificial breed of bird you have to treat them in a way that they were not intended to be treated by design because I feel they are being mistreated" These birds do exactly what they are made for and that is to produce eggs and they do it better than what any BYCer can claim and now someone wants to tell me they are mistreated. These hens would not lay as well as they do if they are being mistreated and I have yet to see any data showing otherwise. Who here keeps their coop at a constant temperature or provides the best feed available to their birds?

This whole movement is based on a human emotion somehow applied to chicken. Ridiculous!! I have seen worse abuse at the hands of private owners. I have a white leghorn production hen and she is freeranged and is still the wildest wackiest bird I own, it is as if she needs confinement to settle down and she lays an egg almost every day.

And as with any legislation the devil will be in the details. There will be so much junk attached that the intent of the bill will be lost.

Leghorns (Pearl White/Production type) are not some scientifically developed test tube bird. Leghorns are an old heritage breed. The production layer was developed from regular old heritage Leghorns and they are no different from them in their ability to function outside of factory conditions. In fact, the flightiness of leghorns is intuitively something that as a factory farmer you would think that you would want not to have a problem with. Certainly the leghorns I had despised confinement even in my large open air pens as much as they disliked smaller pens, much of the nervous behavior I have seen seems exacerbated in confinement. I have had plenty of Leghorns, production type. I would add that in terms of flightiness, they are about the same as any other mediterranean class chicken in terms of behaviors and adaptability to free range, group confinement, etc in my personal experience. To me it seems that you are suggesting that production leghorns were developed for confinement systems and therefore happier/better off in them. If that is your point, I respectfully have to disagree. You just can't convince me that should these hens have more space to move their wings, etc. that they will be worse off or perform less well. If that were the case, i would suggest it is due to poor management of those systems, not the extra space, etc.

 

[OldGuy43]

That's it. I'm through! I came to BYC to learn about chicken ranching, not argue politics. I'm outta here.

 

[chickened]

That is problem are they "happier"? how do you measure that? what standard do you use? production? happiness is not a desired result outside egg production. How do you create happiness for a chicken? how do you distuinguish happiness from normal behavior? I have been in and seen these large operations and the birds are aler, eating, clucking and doig all the telltale signs of a content bird so I just do not see the evidence of cruelty or mistreatment unless I compare them to my birds but then again someone keeping their birds in thier living room may think I do not go far enough. It is all relative beyond basic care, food, shelter and water. I do understand that they are limited to a finite amount of space but it does not effect the basics so I think anything beyond that is mere speculation and does not warrant any change. It will never end if they go down this path because happiness is undeterminable in its function.

Leghorns (Pearl White/Production type) are not some scientifically developed test tube bird. Leghorns are an old heritage breed. The production layer was developed from regular old heritage Leghorns and they are no different from them in their ability to function outside of factory conditions. In fact, the flightiness of leghorns is intuitively something that as a factory farmer you would think that you would want not to have a problem with. Certainly the leghorns I had despised confinement even in my large open air pens as much as they disliked smaller pens, much of the nervous behavior I have seen seems exacerbated in confinement. I have had plenty of Leghorns, production type. I would add that in terms of flightiness, they are about the same as any other mediterranean class chicken in terms of behaviors and adaptability to free range, group confinement, etc in my personal experience. To me it seems that you are suggesting that production leghorns were developed for confinement systems and therefore happier/better off in them. If that is your point, I respectfully have to disagree. You just can't convince me that should these hens have more space to move their wings, etc. that they will be worse off or perform less well. If that were the case, i would suggest it is due to poor management of those systems, not the extra space, etc.

 

[chickened]

Yes they were developed from an original leghorn but the ones the factories use are developed strains for mass egg production in a short amount of time. 300 egg a cycle is not normal. You need improvements to get this. The strains used in egg farming do not adapt well even the ones that are never put in production. I have had them and they do not work out as a rule they are different is all. But they do lay well.

Leghorns (Pearl White/Production type) are not some scientifically developed test tube bird. Leghorns are an old heritage breed. The production layer was developed from regular old heritage Leghorns and they are no different from them in their ability to function outside of factory conditions. In fact, the flightiness of leghorns is intuitively something that as a factory farmer you would think that you would want not to have a problem with. Certainly the leghorns I had despised confinement even in my large open air pens as much as they disliked smaller pens, much of the nervous behavior I have seen seems exacerbated in confinement. I have had plenty of Leghorns, production type. I would add that in terms of flightiness, they are about the same as any other mediterranean class chicken in terms of behaviors and adaptability to free range, group confinement, etc in my personal experience. To me it seems that you are suggesting that production leghorns were developed for confinement systems and therefore happier/better off in them. If that is your point, I respectfully have to disagree. You just can't convince me that should these hens have more space to move their wings, etc. that they will be worse off or perform less well. If that were the case, i would suggest it is due to poor management of those systems, not the extra space, etc.