Lessons learned while trying to beat the heat...

[room onthebroom]

You must have missed my point...corn does not create more heat during digestion...and most feeds are mostly corn anyway. So not a life or death difference.

Yeah, I have been meaning to comment on this corn thing for a while!
Giving extra corn before bedtime in the winter keeps them warm just because they like it a lot and so can easily be enticed to eat a bit more that way and corn is very easily digested.
That does not mean you can't give corn in the summer and in fact those crumbles or pellets you are feeding as regular chicken feed have loads of corn in them - it usually is the first ingredient.
So, yeah, a bit of frozen fresh corn is just fine...

I didn't miss your point, but thanks for saying it twice, just in case I did. I never said you cant give them additional corn in the summer, I said that I personally never do, nor will I ever start. This is the same as me personally not eating boiling hot, spicy food in the summer, or standing over a hot stove when its 95* inside my house & 125* outside. Every little thing you can do to make them less hot matters. I've lived in the desert southwest my entire life & have had birds out here for many years. No offense, but one of you lives near the Great Lakes & the other has been on BYC for a few weeks... Forgive me for sharing what has worked well for me with other people in my particular climate.

 

[Stephine]

I didn't miss your point, but thanks for saying it twice, just in case I did. I never said you cant give them additional corn in the summer, I said that I personally never do, nor will I ever start. This is the same as me personally not eating boiling hot, spicy food in the summer, or standing over a hot stove when its 95* inside my house & 125* outside. Every little thing you can do to make them less hot matters. I've lived in the desert southwest my entire life & have had birds out here for many years. No offense, but one of you lives near the Great Lakes & the other has been on BYC for a few weeks... Forgive me for sharing what has worked well for me with other people in my particular climate.

No need for the vitriol. By the way, I have been here for over a year. Don't feed corn if you don't want to, we were just trying to clear up a misunderstanding. Sometimes people repeat something that isn't correct just because they have heard it repeated a lot.... I for one, am always happy if somebody can clear up a misunderstanding or misinterpretation, etc.
Nobody is trying to heat up your chickens here... But I am interested now: What do you feed them as their basic feed?

 

[room onthebroom]

Stephnie, I did misread the year on your avatar. I totally own that. There is zero 'vitriol' coming from any of my posts & if you've seen me around, you would know that is never the way I roll. The corn in the summer is a very heated issue (no pun intended.) The majority of people I know & the majority of things I've read say don't do it. I am a 'better safe than sorry' kind of person whenever it comes to my pets. I feel that you & aart are being a little pushy by telling me 3x that corn is a main ingredient in my feed. I am well aware of that & have said a couple times now that I don't give them extra corn in the summer. People are asking what works best for other people. I have said what works best for me & you & aart have called my options, incorrect, a misunderstanding, a misinterpretation, & a fallacy... Its a little aggressive. Not giving extra corn in the summertime is not depriving the chickens in anyway, so again, better safe than sorry for me every time. I don't feel this thread should be cluttered with a bunch of I'm right & you're wrong nonsense. This is already a record breaking summer & its only getting a lot hotter from here.
Once again, I wish everybody on this thread good luck with their birds. I hope you can all find what works best for you & apologize that you've had to sit thru the past few posts.

 

[Stephine]

room onthebroom:
Ok. Your first sentence in your reply was sarcastic and criticized us for trying to explain a scientific fact.
Then you ended the post by dismissing our input based on where we live or how long we have been on BYC. That was unfriendly.
We were talking about the issue and you made it about us.
For my part, this is not at all about wanting to be right and wanting you to be wrong, it's not personal, it's about finding the truth. I don't really care if you take anything from the corn discussion, but hope other people reading this might find it helpful.

 

[Stephine]

For anyone interested in what people who studied this issue have to say about it, this is from a different thread (sorry, can't figure out how to link):

Ok, the question at hand is whether feeding corn to poultry during hot weather is detrimental. The traditional wisdom is that it makes the bird hot which can lead to greater heat stress and even death in hot weather.

When nutritionists talk of corn being a "hot" feedstock they are referring to the caloric content. Corn is much higher in calories per pound than most cereal grains. People then mistakenly assume that a "hot" feed must make an animal hotter. In defending this they say the excess calories must produce more heat making the animal hotter or they think that that "hot" refers to the animal's temperment, that feeding excess calories makes
them more energetic thus burning excess energy that increases the animal's temperature.

Getting down to the basics of nutrition, a complete ration consists of proteins (amino acids), carbohydrates, lipids (fats), vitamins and minerals. Energy available in a ration is stated in calories. If you were to burn a portion of a ration in a flame to extract all energy you would be measuring the Gross Energy available in kilocalories per kilogram.

All of this energy is not availale to the animal. A certain portion of energy is passed on through fecal matter. The remaining is termed Digestible Energy. A portion of this energy is passed on through the urine and creation of gases. What is left is Metabolizable Energy, but once again all of this energy is still not available to the bird. A portion of this energy is expended as heat in digestion and metabolic processes. This portion is referred to as the Heat Increment. What is left is Net Energy used in maintenance and production. Maintenance being the energy used in daily activities and production being energy used in growth, replacement, and reproductive products.

The Heat Increment is what we are concerned with. The heat produced in digestion is related to the fiber content of the feedstock. The higher the fiber, the more heat. Heat produced in metabolism differs among the nutrients in a feed ration. For protein the heat increment is 20-30%, for carbs, 10-15% and for fats, 5-10%. (Best numbers I could come up with, they vary among different texts).

Based on this, some nutritionists recommended formulating feed rations by Heat Increment to reduce heat stress in livestock. Since animals cut back on feed intake during hot weather, they recommend increasing total energy in the ration to help the animal maintain on the reduced intake. They also recommend lowering protein levels and feeding more carbs, or even better, fats, which have the lowest Heat Increment. Additionally they recommend low fiber rations to reduce the heat increment from digestion.

So where does that leave corn? Well corn is high energy, easily digestible, and low in protein, everything that the nutritionists recommend to reduce heat stress.

Conversely, in cold weather, birds will eat to meet their energy requirements. If a coop is maintained at moderate temperatures feed intake stays fairly normal. If the temperature plunges the birds eat more to maintain their temperature. If they are eating an excess of standard rations they are getting too much protein in which the excess is excreted in the urine, leading to poor feed conversion. Once again, corn to the rescue! Supplemental corn can help them meet their energy requirements and cut their protein intake back to required levels.

Quote:

Mac:

I have a PhD in Livestock Nutrition and could not have summarized the use of corn in monogastric rations better. Thanks for a very good explanation.

Jim Ph.D. KSU 1998

Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay :

Quote:

Mac:

I have a PhD in Livestock Nutrition and could not have summarized the use of corn in monogastric rations better. Thanks for a very good explanation.

Jim Ph.D. KSU 1998

And I taught High school and Adult production Ag for 10 years and have farmed all my life. I agree Jim . Thanks Mac!​

I think it is really interesting how naturally we assume that if something is food for the cold it has to be bad in the heat!

 

[FlyWheel]

Just so y'all know, fans don't cool the air, they just move it around. The only reason it feels cool to you is the moving air speeds up the evaporation of the moisture on your skin. Unless your chickens are wet or have learned how to perspire I can't see how it would help much, other than pulling out the humidity in a coop from their breathing.

 

[Wilson74]

I really like the frozen blueberry idea in water. I am going to have to give that a shot

 

[Percheron chick]

I put my kitchen waste in cottage cheese containers, cover in water then freeze. Place it in a feed pan and as it melts they eat the goodies. Just squeeze the container and it pops right out. You can do the same with their feed.

 

[Wilson74]

For anyone interested in what people who studied this issue have to say about it, this is from a different thread (sorry, can't figure out how to link):






I think it is really interesting how naturally we assume that if something is food for the cold it has to be bad in the heat!

This is great reading. Thank you for taking the time to find it.

 

[SonoranChick]

This is great advice, I've also read not to disturb chickens I. The heat of the day during the summer. They need to rest and movement creates heat and energy. This is from the book "Storeys Guide to Raising Chickens" by Gail Damerow