Let the Controversy Begin!!

[cluckers&quackers]

I say do what you feel is right.
I personally don't see anything wrong with chicks going outside and doing what comes naturally.
At the same time, I dont take my chicks out to play, but only because I always have so many other things going on through out the day that I worry I will lose track of time, or get tied up with something and have my babies unattended for to long and have something hapen to them, now if they were with a mama I wouldn't worry quite so much because she would be watching them.

I think there are many opinions and not really any right and wrongs. I don't have all the experience that many here have, and I am just basically learning as I go, and trying to use my own experiences to learn, as sometimes there are definitely some lessons learned, like what I would or wouldn't do next time sort of things. But I also greatly value the advice people on this board have given me, because even if I change it a bit and don't follow it exactly it at least gives me a place to start in finding what works best for me

As far as treats and things go, mama hen wouldn't allow her chicks to eat only grain, and I think there is a reason for that. Many people free range their birds, and if you watch them a hen or even a rooster will go through the yard taking a piece of this and a piece of that, like they know exactly what mix their bodies need, I see no harm in letting a chick do the same, but that is just my own opinion

 

[Mahonri]

Listen to your chicken lady.

 

[noodleroo]

I don't think it hurts anything to be extra careful. Everybody has their own experience and opinions and you'll probably not fine many exactly the same. I guess for those of us (including me) that are less experienced and just know the basics of what a chick needs from day to day that it would be best to err on the side of caution.

With that said, I put mine outside at 10 days old just 2 days ago and they are quite happy to be outside. Nature is a pretty good provider of what is needed; if you raise them inside its necessary that you know what they need so you can provide it like food, water, warmth...I'm providing that outside too.

Treats are another matter. If you are giving treats because it is something special for the chick's needs, it requires that you KNOW what a chick needs. If the treats are just a training tool to have the chicks get used to your hand and being handled, I'm not really sure that's a good idea for the first few weeks. I still haven't given mine treats or anything from my hand (except snuggling and petting) because they seem to be doing so well as they are. I want them to know that 'hands are for loving', not food. Thats what I do. If you feel comfortable with treating your chicks and/or know more about it than me, then don't let my opinion deprive you or make you feel guilty. Just like the chicken lady, its just what I do.

 

[Chickenaddict]

I have always allowed chicks outside at as young as 2 days old (with their mamas) What do you think they did in the wild or wayyy back when? They went outside! They ate dirt, bugs, leaves, ect and found dirt or sand as grit. I feel it is up to the person whether or not they want to allow that. What I have found is chicks raised under a hen verses an incubated chick in a brooder will have a stronger immune system and grow ALOT faster then a chick secluded in a brooder. I have done it both ways several times and the outcome is always the same. I have 7 week old banties outside right now that have been "free ranging" on their own since they were 3 weeks old but been outside since they were less then 1 week old! Never a sneeze,, sniffle or anything out of them. They are super healthy and happy. What works for some may not work for others tho. You do what you feel is best for the chicks. I have nothing negative to say about "the chicken lady" she does what works best for her

 

[StormyMoon]

I agree with chicken lady, if it is cold out or windy keep chicks in if they don't have momma hen to protect them. Other than that I would let chicks do what come natural to them.
I think we can often overly worry about these babies and it can smother them, a lot of chicks die from being over cared for. Im not saying its bad people doing this, but mother nature has given them ( the chickens ) instincts we can often get in the way of that can cause death.

Let them scratch in the dirt it is natures grit to chickens like I said if they can't go out bring outside indoors. What can it hurt?

 

[Ridgerunner]

She sounds like an interesting person. She may have learned something over 25 years of raising chickens or she may have read a book and follow those guidelines and recommendations rigidly, failing to learn anything new. I would not read too much into other employees shaking their heads as if in agreement. They may be agreeing with her, they may be thinking "there she goes again", or they may have learned it is not pleasant to offer a different opinion. Or she may be considering her audience and thinking that if she gives the most conservative advice possible, then you are much less likely to have a disaster. I don't know her and certainly do not know her experience level or her thought processes.

I've tried e-mailing the manufacturer of Dumor Starter to see if they put grit in there. It does not show up on the ingredients list. I did get a response but it was short and extremely not informative. Why would I trust the distributor if the manufacturer does not know or is unwilling to say? Boggles the mind sometimes. Anyway, for the starter, all it needs is for something in there to be harder than anything else and that will act as grit for what is in the starter. Corn meal may do that trick. I don't know. But I would not trust corn meal or anything else in the starter to act as grit for a hard shelled bug, a tough blade of grass, or a weed seed. I give mine grit for several reason, but you can get in trouble giving your chicks grit. If you collect sand and small pebbles from a gravel road, that is fine. But if you collect it from a road that has been salted for ice and snow, you can be hurting your chicks or grown chickens. They cannot handle that extra salt very well. Or you can feed parakeet grit to your chicks. But some parakeet grit contains extra calcium which can harm a chicks liver. Not that it absolutely will, but it can. The most conservative advice is to only let your chicks eat starter until they are 6 weeks old and don't feed grit, on the chance you might give them grit that causes a problem. But I think that if you give them the right kind of grit, the benefits outweigh the potential problem. Different opinions. Different ways to approach the problem.

Guidelines are guidelines. They are not absolute rigid laws of nature. We violate them all the time. Nature violates them all the time. The true guidelines improve the chances fo success or reduce the chances of something going wrong, but violating them does not guarantee a problem. I have yet to put marbles in my waterer and I have never had a chick drown or die of thirst. A lot of things are interrelated. If you do A, then you should do B, but if you don't do A, it doesn't matter if you do B or not. Real answers are seldom as clear and straightforward as we tend to make them. We don't know all your conditions and circumstances, so we tend to be cautious in our responses and in the general guideines. And following the guidelines rigidly does not guarantee success. There are certain assumptions behind each guideline. If a basic assumption does not fit your specific circumstances, then the guideline could actually point you in the wrong direction. And sometimes, even if you do everything exactly right, things just happen.

I do it, but I think you have to be a bit careful comparing how you raise chicks in a brooder versus how a mother hen raises her chicks. I don't speak chicken. Oh, I can pick up a word every now and then, but I really can't carry on a conversation in that language. A mother hen can talk to her chicks, can understand what they tell her, really concentrates on them at all times, and has the instincts to know what to do in certain circumstances. I'm not as good as her. It is obvious from watching a mother hen and her chicks that 17 day old chicks do not need to be kept at a rigid 80 to 85 degrees Fahrenheit at all times. A mother hen instinctively knows how to handle that. I don't, so I am more careful and rigid than she seems to be.

If I were you, I'd probably trust her more than anybody posting something on the internet. If she will allow it, you might politely ask her why to try to understand where she is coming from on some of these things, but like anyone else's advice, filter it through your experiences, knowledge, and common sense.

Good luck!!

 

[gritsar]

Quote:
I agree. I will raise my upcoming batch of chicks the same way I raised the first happy, healthy flock that is now two years old and never had an illness.
Outside by two weeks old to play an forage in the grass. You're feeding medicated starter right? Well they have to get on the ground, to be exposed to cocci, in order for the medication in the starter to help them develop an immunity.
Treats started at about the same time, besides what they find themselves (since I brood them outside). Last time it was poor hapless spiders that would wander into the brooder at night. The chicks adore them.
I will always be outside with young chicks, watching for signs that they are getting chilled and need their heat lamp.
Mama hen does the same thing. Should we take chicks away from the mama as soon as they hatch and keep them in a sterile enviroment in the house, when it's clear that mama hen can do a better job of raising them?

 

[gryeyes]

I would love to have a local Chicken Lady available to me!

The first batch o' chicks I had, I took 'em out when they were about 3 wks old, for little day trips.

Subsequent batches of chicks, naaaah. They'll stay in the brooder until they go out full time. I still don't give treats until they are 2 wks old, and then very rarely - it's only for MY purposes, really, to get them to be less afraid of me. And it's chopped up hard boiled egg, or scrambled egg, or mealworms. And I provide some grit - construction sand - the at the same time, in a different dish. I have no idea how much grit a chick's gizzard would need, so I won't guess how much to sprinkle on any food..... they can pick what they need. Dunno how they know how much, or even if they do.

Absolutely everyone here is really well-meaning. They share what works for them. Some folks are a little conservative (or very), some are kinda out there (pretty far).

But to have a Chicken Lady nearby, to lean across a counter or walk around with and get advice. You are SO lucky!

 

[Laurajean]

Wow, this is getting a lot of feedback. I don't think I've read so many posts so intently. I'd quote all the interesting points, but it would be a mile long! I am somewhat surprised but pleased to hear that many of you think the ChickenLady is fine, and is just trying to play it safe with a newbie. That's the feeling I get from her too. I've gone in there many times with questions, and this place is always VERY busy. People will be buying stuff and standing in line and other cashiers are busy ringing people through, and she will just stand there in the middle of the crowd giving me advice until I understand and feel satisfied without ever hurrying me off. She is kind and patient with me and my gazillions of questions and I appreciate that and tell her so every time.

Some people made remarks about her being 'rigid' or 'strict'. I would say she is DEFINITELY Old School for sure! But I'm okay with that if the advice is sound. Maybe things can be done another way 'these days', but if her old fashioned advice works, great! I've decided after listening to ChickenLady's advice AND weighing it in here on the board, that I feel most confident leaving the chicks in the brooder awhile longer and not opting for treats yet. It may be overly conservative, but I would rather play it safe right now. As a couple posters mentioned, maybe as I get the hang of this, I will vary my approach with future chicks. I really liked the cooking analogy about sticking with an exact recipe the first time and then altering it as you get used to cooking it. That sums up perfectly how I feel. I love my chicks, they are precious pets to me, I just want to learn everything I can and make educated decisions.

Sounds like there are a lot of different ways that people raise chicks successfully. I have to say that I feel very fortunate to have a local expert that I can speak firsthand with, and I am also grateful for all the wonderful people on this board too! It's SO amazing to me that I can sit here in my house, way out in the NH woods, and get dozens and dozens of good people willing to help at my fingertips!

 

[Buff Hooligans]

I haven't read this thread at all, but I have to say, I'm inclined to ignore any thread with a title that implies it wants controversy (i.e. lots of opposing viewpoints and heated discussion). But that's just me.