Let's talk Cuckoo and WHITE marans... breeding strategies...

[Chooks man]

Hi DMRippy.
first we have to clear the genetic vocabulary ; what do you refer to by saying a regular cuckoo and a silver cuckoo?
Second i see you refer to the US standard .

Are we Talking French MArans breed bread to a French standard.

Marans club of Australia follow the French standard word by word no deviation. have a lock first and see what they say about a cuckoo ( Silver or Golden) hen.

I m a member of the French Marans club and I m working with them in developing the Silver and the Golden cuckoo marans . they adore a Hackle .
I m working as well with Monique Berte a French Breeder ( she is a lady ho send the Black copper LP line eggs ) .visit her Forum ( Marans aspiran -in French) and have a look at her hen s .

The French they call the cuckoo variety - coucou a camail Argente.OR Doree- cuckoo with a Silver Or a Golden Hackle. Because they are from the ER family .The Hack;e Family witch is ; Black copper ( Noire a camail cuiver)- Black with a copper Hackle
Birchen ( Noire a camail Argentee) - Black with a silver Hackle
Blue copper ( Bleu a camail cuivre) - Blue with a copper Hackel
Blue Birchen ( Blue a camail Argente) - Blue Birchen
Splash copper ( Spl a camail cuivre) - Splash with a copper Hackle
Splash Birchen ( Spl a camail Argente) Splash with a Silver Hackle.
Silver cuckoo ( coucou a camail Argente) Cuckoo with a Silver Hackle.
Golden Cuckoo coucou a camail Doree) - Cuckoo with a Golden Hackle.

The Hen s in this family they have to have Hackle. THEY ARE NOT EXTENDED BLACK E/E FAMILY solid ( uniform ) body colour.

The French Standard does not describe a solid cuckoo- they call t a coucou- does not exist in the French Marans Breed.

each person and country have a right to have they standard BUT I stay True to the French Standard and I ll breed only the pullets or cockerels they select for me. I Breed but I don t make a standard .they know they chooks better than me.

I know you guy in the US have your own standard that good BUT it s only good for you guys not for me. I m here in the Forum to chere my work with you guys and exchange idea and breeding strategies ..
I m NOT here to argue any standard . please don t take me wrong.

That why I do no see any problem with Chelsea a silver cuckoo marans hen . coucou a camail Argente'- NOT SOLID cuckoo.Not Regular not any thing else. TO THE FRENCH STANDARD.

 

[DMRippy]

Hi DMRippy.
first we have to clear the genetic vocabulary ; what do you refer to by saying a regular cuckoo and a silver cuckoo?
Second i see you refer to the US standard .

Are we Talking French MArans breed bread to a French standard.

Marans club of Australia follow the French standard word by word no deviation. have a lock first and see what they say about a cuckoo ( Silver or Golden) hen.

I m a member of the French Marans club and I m working with them in developing the Silver and the Golden cuckoo marans . they adore a Hackle .
I m working as well with Monique Berte a French Breeder ( she is a lady ho send the Black copper LP line eggs ) .visit her Forum ( Marans aspiran -in French) and have a look at her hen s .

The French they call the cuckoo variety - coucou a camail Argente.OR Doree- cuckoo with a Silver Or a Golden Hackle. Because they are from the ER family .The Hack;e Family witch is ; Black copper ( Noire a camail cuiver)- Black with a copper Hackle
Birchen ( Noire a camail Argentee) - Black with a silver Hackle
Blue copper ( Bleu a camail cuivre) - Blue with a copper Hackel
Blue Birchen ( Blue a camail Argente) - Blue Birchen
Splash copper ( Spl a camail cuivre) - Splash with a copper Hackle
Splash Birchen ( Spl a camail Argente) Splash with a Silver Hackle.
Silver cuckoo ( coucou a camail Argente) Cuckoo with a Silver Hackle.
Golden Cuckoo coucou a camail Doree) - Cuckoo with a Golden Hackle.

The Hen s in this family they have to have Hackle. THEY ARE NOT EXTENDED BLACK E/E FAMILY solid ( uniform ) body colour.

The French Standard does not describe a solid cuckoo- they call t a coucou- does not exist in the French Marans Breed.

each person and country have a right to have they standard BUT I stay True to the French Standard and I ll breed only the pullets or cockerels they select for me. I Breed but I don t make a standard .they know they chooks better than me.

I know you guy in the US have your own standard that good BUT it s only good for you guys not for me. I m here in the Forum to chere my work with you guys and exchange idea and breeding strategies ..
I m NOT here to argue any standard . please don t take me wrong.

That why I do no see any problem with Chelsea a silver cuckoo marans hen . coucou a camail Argente'- NOT SOLID cuckoo.Not Regular not any thing else. TO THE FRENCH STANDARD.

My understanding is the US standard has followed the French Standard to get them admitted. Birds that look like yours are part of the reason Cuckoos have not yet been admitted in the US yet. I visit the Austraila Clubs page OFTEN as they have a great site.

Since I am in the US and you seem to not be we will have different views of the way they should look. As well as the terminology. You might want to add your LOCATION to your BYC info. That helps cut confusion down when someone knows you are not in the US. Most know the standards are different in other Countries. With that in mind when you are offering advice to someone in the US they need to conform to the US standards so suggest they look at the US standard or the proposed standard so we don't continue to breed more birds that are not even close to what is required here. The Cuckoos have been a HUGE problem in the use. No feathered legs on most, pattern wrong and egg color so we don't need to perpetuate the problem by someone breeding to another standard.

 

[Chooks man]

Hi DMRippy that understandable .the standard is very tricky . we are having a problem here in OZ with t. because both the standard French and English are accepted and can be shown .

here what happen . The French standard is dominant ( a lot members) but the poultry import services allow the import just from UK. So the breeders impoerted the English type too.( my cuckoo are the result of crossing the English type Rooster to the French type hen s .Now I m in the F2 ) so now we have to work with both. how about that very confusing .

Monique Berte and other French breeders want to send me marans fertile eggs but I can not import them NOT PERMITTED . shame. So I have to work with what I have and bread /select generation after generation . I m going be doing t for a rest of my life . I m not in ruch.

that is a reason I decided no to show my chooks and work directly with a French Club to breed them properly ( they help me with they advice and choosing a breeders , they are helpfull . a lot work need to be done. I m doing a lot of culling and more for the next 3 years.I m not stopping tell I breed a pure Marans French type variety. they coast a lot money here in OZ so is worth t.

you guys are lucky .a lot good breeders in the US . look at this Forum so rich with information . We don t have that in OZ.That is a reason I visit your forum and I read every Marans thread and I can tell you I m impressed about how much dedication and hard work guy s like you put to establish the Marans Bread. BRAVO.

I Like the Marans French Forum too ( I do speak and read French ) So rich. the photos are sublime .

We all share the same passion . a LOVE OF THE MARANS CHOOKS. and we have our oun differences in how to achieve perfection .

How can I add my location?

thanks

 

[SavorChick]

How can I add my location?

thanks

 

[Chooks man]

Thank you savorchik that was helpfull .

DMRippy what do you think of this F2 silver cuckoo pullet Chelseana and her sister Chelseally both are Chelsea s daughter ( Chelsea was crossed back to her Sire Charlie) 1)Chelseana.2) Chelseally

 

[Blarneyeggs]

Thank you savorchik that was helpfull .

DMRippy what do you think of this F2 silver cuckoo pullet Chelseana and her sister Chelseally both are Chelsea s daughter ( Chelsea was crossed back to her Sire Charlie) 1)Chelseana.2) Chelseally

HA! love the names

 

[DMRippy]

Thank you savorchik that was helpfull .

DMRippy what do you think of this F2 silver cuckoo pullet Chelseana and her sister Chelseally both are Chelsea s daughter ( Chelsea was crossed back to her Sire Charlie) 1)Chelseana.2) Chelseally

The one on the right looks closer to what we expect in the US. PERSONALLY I would prefer the Cuckoos have the birchen hackles.... I like that look better. Culled many for that look.

 

[Chooks man]

I m a same I like them with a Hackle guess a same to a birchen hen s without a hackle they are just a Black hen s.
my F2 generation yielded a 2 types ; from Sire over Daughter cross I got a lot with a hackle but from F1 X F1 ( sibling ) cross yielded more of solid cuckoo type.

To breed hen s with a good hackle -ER Family- and to maintain t is very hard work,that why a lot Black/ Blue copper or Birchen hen s does not have hackles .

to get a ER hen s with a good hackles we need a Roosters to have 1) a spotted chest, or lighter ears down plus for a coppers red shoulders .for the Birchen Silver /White shoulders.that easy we can see t in the roosters we select. a problem is with a cuckoo Roosters because of the Barring gene make t hard to spot this trait .

that explain why my F1 pullets from the Sire cross majority have hackle Because Charlie the Sire have a Silver /White ears down BUT the pullets from F1 cross majority without hackls( solid) they Sire Chinatown have a darker almost grayish ears down.

So if we don t want a hackle than we have to choose Cuckoo roosters with a darker ears down NOT White.

How are you going around this problem?. what is your method of selecting a breeders.Do you still do a lot of culling or the problem is solved?

It s good to know how other breeders deal with this sort of problem.

 

[DMRippy]

I m a same I like them with a Hackle guess a same to a birchen hen s without a hackle they are just a Black hen s.
my F2 generation yielded a 2 types ; from Sire over Daughter cross I got a lot with a hackle but from F1 X F1 ( sibling ) cross yielded more of solid cuckoo type.

To breed hen s with a good hackle -ER Family- and to maintain t is very hard work,that why a lot Black/ Blue copper or Birchen hen s does not have hackles .

to get a ER hen s with a good hackles we need a Roosters to have 1) a spotted chest, or lighter ears down plus for a coppers red shoulders .for the Birchen Silver /White shoulders.that easy we can see t in the roosters we select. a problem is with a cuckoo Roosters because of the Barring gene make t hard to spot this trait .

that explain why my F1 pullets from the Sire cross majority have hackle Because Charlie the Sire have a Silver /White ears down BUT the pullets from F1 cross majority without hackls( solid) they Sire Chinatown have a darker almost grayish ears down.

So if we don t want a hackle than we have to choose Cuckoo roosters with a darker ears down NOT White.

How are you going around this problem?. what is your method of selecting a breeders.Do you still do a lot of culling or the problem is solved?

It s good to know how other breeders deal with this sort of problem.

Well.... I had three racoons hit my pens. The Cuckoo was hit really hard. I have only every had one cock and I didn't get him till he was grown. He didn't have birchen that expressed. Now I am starting over and it is not looking good. I added some Black Marans to improve egg color and other issues are popping up. So now I have to sort through that first.... heart breaking they were one of my first Marans. Worked hard just to get feathered legs (HUGE issue in the US). I have several birds I need to test mate and see what I really have to work with. Just going to take some time. I had not heard that about the ear down. I have seen the same problem in Coppers but never thought about it being a lack of the gene. I do just enough genetics to be dangerous. LOL Finally my Coppers are breeding true for the most part with the copper expressing.

My culling for the birchen came when I introduced some solid looking blue pullets. They carried it so I knew to keep an eye out for it.... then they were almost all killed.

 

[Chooks man]

Sorry to hear your lost. same happen to me lost most of my cuckoo and Blues 114 chicks aged 3 month. that a way of life .we have to push forward .Loosing a chicken is hard but loosing the years of work been put to fixed them that hurt .

how are you working with them and a Black copper ?

I had a good result crossing the silver cuckoo Rooster ( English type) to the Black coppers hen s without a hackle ( Black hens) the F2 Solid cuckoo like type is from this crosses

I m going to cross mine this year to the Birchen .my cuckoo cockerels need type and feathered legs and my Birchen need a boost of pure silver gene / clear what let of the Ar+ Autosomal Red and keeping a hackle on the cuckoo hen s.

here how I m going to do t ;1) Birchen Roo X silver cuckoo hen s= F1 dark cuckoo Cockerels and Bichen pullets YEAR ONE
YEAR TWO ; Cross back a Birchen pullets to they Sire ( Birchen) and Cross back The Darck cockerels to they mamas( silver cuckoo )

2) Silver cuckoo Roo X Birchen hen s = F1 A all dark cuckoo .YEAR ONE.
YEAR TWO ; Cross back a cuckoo pullets to a new silver cuckoo Rooster ,and cross the F1 darck cuckoo cockerel to they mam s( Birchen = 50% Birchen ,50% cuckoo.

a lot of work but it s enjoyable . I like Genetic and breeding.

Good luck with your breeding