Let's talk Cuckoo and WHITE marans... breeding strategies...

[Hens and Roos]

I know that side sprigs are bad but was wondering if someone could point me to a website where I could learn more about them geneticly(sp)

 

[OHmamma]

Quote:
Yes, that is correct. You'd need to breed a few blue or black pullets from him and breed them back to him, and you'd get about half whites.
I don't think whites are so rare, it is just that they are only recently becoming a bit more popular. They are out there if you look for them.

I have a sport white hen from BCM parents I cross her with my silver cuckoo and she makes blues and blacks. She has also made a few odd looking splash I am not sure if they are going ot be cuckoo splash or not.

He is a nice looking roo. True Whites have white legs too. But I am finding the in the spalsh chicks she is throwing with the silver cuckoo their legs are coming out grey and white. I wouldn't use him back to black coppers but I would think with some blues,blacks or cuckoos he could help darken the egg.

 

[VillageChicken]

Quote:
I haven't found any single website with the information you are looking for. But I've found an excerpt that stated in genetic testing of leghorns, side sprigs are polygenic, meaning more than one gene influences their expression. Two different dominant genes must be present for side sprigs to express. That is why they are hard to eliminate. Your entire flock could be homozygous for one of these factors, but never, ever express. Then you introduce outside blood that possess the other factor, and suddenly you're getting sprigs out of everyone. This is my understanding of how they work based on what i have read.

 

[OHmamma]

Quote:
I haven't found any single website with the information you are looking for. But I've found an excerpt that stated in genetic testing of leghorns, side sprigs are polygenic, meaning more than one gene influences their expression. Two different dominant genes must be present for side sprigs to express. That is why they are hard to eliminate. Your entire flock could be homozygous for one of these factors, but never, ever express. Then you introduce outside blood that possess the other factor, and suddenly you're getting sprigs out of everyone. This is my understanding of how they work based on what i have read.

That is what I noticed too, it is hard to find info on white ears too. Both are a polygenic trait. I had three lines all clear of sprigs in the parents and first generation but I have had to cull a few that have had them from the third generation offspring. Lucky for me the ear color has never been an issue.

I just think it is something that is going to happen and the best thing to do is cull BOTH roos and hens that have it. I think it is one of those things that are easier to cull for in the roo than the hens because it sometimes isn't as noticeable. Some people also tend to overlook more "flaws" in order to keep a nice pullet.

 

[Hens and Roos]

Quote:
I haven't found any single website with the information you are looking for. But I've found an excerpt that stated in genetic testing of leghorns, side sprigs are polygenic, meaning more than one gene influences their expression. Two different dominant genes must be present for side sprigs to express. That is why they are hard to eliminate. Your entire flock could be homozygous for one of these factors, but never, ever express. Then you introduce outside blood that possess the other factor, and suddenly you're getting sprigs out of everyone. This is my understanding of how they work based on what i have read.

That is what I noticed too, it is hard to find info on white ears too. Both are a polygenic trait. I had three lines all clear of sprigs in the parents and first generation but I have had to cull a few that have had them from the third generation offspring. Lucky for me the ear color has never been an issue.

I just think it is something that is going to happen and the best thing to do is cull BOTH roos and hens that have it. I think it is one of those things that are easier to cull for in the roo than the hens because it sometimes isn't as noticeable. Some people also tend to overlook more "flaws" in order to keep a nice pullet.

thanks for the interesting information, was wondering how that worked. So according to the information all birds could be potential carries and you wouldn't know it unless you had the 2 dominant genes.

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
I haven't found any single website with the information you are looking for. But I've found an excerpt that stated in genetic testing of leghorns, side sprigs are polygenic, meaning more than one gene influences their expression. Two different dominant genes must be present for side sprigs to express. That is why they are hard to eliminate. Your entire flock could be homozygous for one of these factors, but never, ever express. Then you introduce outside blood that possess the other factor, and suddenly you're getting sprigs out of everyone. This is my understanding of how they work based on what i have read.

VC,

Thanks for that! Does this also work the same for Carnation combs? I gather that a carnation comb on a BCM or any other variety of Marans, would be more or less considered a side sprig, hence a DQ. Do carnations work the same way (genetically) as sprigs??

 

[VillageChicken]

I believe so... but I think you need the right configuration to get a good carnation comb.
If you need two factors to get a sprig, e.g. A and B then a bird that is heterozygous for both would give you a sprig

Aa Bb = sprig

Any other heterozygous configuration probably gives you messy sprigs that approach a carnation comb

AA Bb
Aa BB

I speculate the proper carnation comb comes with an AA BB combination, and once you select for it, it's easily maintained.

 

[Hens and Roos]

Quote:
I looked in the SOP but didn't see an explanation on this, can you explain what it is? Thanks!

 

[Debbi]

Thanks VC. Not looking to breed for a carnation. Have one, and was wondering if it's possible to breed OUT? Such an otherwise nice cockerel, with this funky comb..

Hens ~ Were you asking about the carnation comb? I had a hard time finding a good pic of one. There is one on the Feathersite web site, but it's not very clear. I'll try to get a pic of mine today, if the storms hold off.

In case I can't, the comb looks like a single comb until you get to the blade. The blade of the comb is rounded, with what looks like a crown configuration of points. That's the best way I know to describe it. Not something I want, for sure!

 

[VillageChicken]

It's basically two uniform sprigs on the blade, one on each side... Penedesencas have them as part of the standard.