LGD fear aggression and me

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

Wow, I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. You are right about setting yourself up a bit by getting two pups out of the same litter--just really a bad idea, unless you have a plan in place for personalized bonding and training until the puppies reach about 12-18 months old. So, to answer your question on your last post, I don't believe one month would be enough for the dogs. I would also not keep a puppy displaying that kind of extreme fear response.

The multipul bites to different areas really is a bad sign. But I wonder about one thing you posted about going out and holding the pups on their backs until they submit then you pick them up? How long have you done this and was this started after or before this puppy bit you? That actually might be the key to this entire thing depending on your answer.

Honestly I think your time and energy would be better spent on just one puppy to get an excellent guardian rather than one with such behavior issues....

 

[animalpro24]

Quote:
May I ask why you would put down a dog because it fears people. And maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you said. But I think that is a unfair thing to do to a young dog that can't bond with it's owner. Sorry but I disagree.

 

[dainerra]

going out and flipping your pup over onto it's back isn't going to magically make you "master" It CAN establish the pup viewing you as some crazy person who just goes out and does scary things to them.

Alpha rolls have long since been debunked. Wolves, even dogs, don't roll their lesser pack members. The lower member will offer its belly to a higher packmate, quite opposite of being forced into that position.

 

[krcote]

Quote:
This.

 

[carolinagirl58]

Quote:
There is nothing in the world wrong with a LGD bonding to their owner. the NEED to be bonded to you because you are their handler. many LGDs are fully bonded to their owners and even go to dog shows, returning to their herds after the show is over. a month apart is not going to be enough for these two dogs. If you read the link I provided, you will see that soon these girls are going to be battling each other for dominance and one may get hurt or even killed. Two adult females of these powerful breeds rarely are good together, even if raised together. LGDs need to be confidant dogs, not fearful dogs. Start some confidence building activities, especially with the fearful one. Take them for rides in your car, take them to puppy obedience classes. They can't go together though unless you have two handlers. These pups are still small and manageable. But when they weigh 100 pounds, are not bonded to you, don't give a crap what you want them to do, are fearful of strange situations and are fighting each other for dominance, you will have major problems on your hands. Please do not leave these animals unattended with your goats or you will end up with dead goats. And please consider just getting rid of one of them now before it's too late.

 

[chickenzoo]

I have found that when I raise mine up and spend a lot of time with them, make a bond with me and them, they are happier dogs but still enjoy being with the animals. i raise mine outside, around the animals and introduce them to fowl and animals as soon as they are born. They enjoy my company but still want to hang out with the critters. I have done this with all mine and they are still good LGD's.

 

[eljen]

Dianerra,

My experience with picking up dogs and rolling them on their backs is not about establishing dominance, it is about establishing trust.

 

[eljen]

Carolinagirl,

Here is my question, they seem to leave it out of all the training material I have found about LGDs, how is it possible to observe a puppy with the flock at all times? I am not a full time shepard, so, do I separate the puppy from the goats any time I am away, which would be all night and all day except for the two or so hours that I can observe them?

 

[carolinagirl58]

One puppy left with one or two mature and calm adult goats should be fine, but need to be closely watched and ANY inappropriate behavior must be corrected. Usually the dogs are not left alone with goats until they are much older and trustworthy Two puppies left with young goats can be disastrous. I like Anatola's better than pyrs for a number of reasons, but that's irrelevant. This is a link to the Anatolian shepherd dog association's website. Go to the different breeder's web sites and check them out. Most offer a lot of different training tips at the bottom of the page. All will tell you that just dropping the pup in the pasture is setting them up for disaster. They need to learn to be guardian dogs. It comes naturally to them, but so does rough puppy play and with there are two of them, they will soon learn to team up with each other and go after the goats. I am so surprised your breeder did not tell you any of this. A good, responsible breeder would never sell litter mates to someone unless they were very sure they had plenty of experience with these types of dogs. Have you called your breeder to see what they suggest you do?

http://www.asdca.org/ this is the association's web site. Click on breeder's links and check out the individual breeder's web pages. Lucky Hit's page has a lot of great training advise. Here's an especially relevant article. http://www.luckyhit.net/ritestrt.htm

I really hope you can resolve these issues. But I really doubt that you can, as long as you keep both of the pups. You'd be much better off getting rid of one of them now and later on, when the remaining pup is a reliable LGD, then introduce another one (preferably a male since male/female teams work together much better).

 

[drdoolittle]

eljen wrote:

I am not a full time shepard, so, do I separate the puppy from the goats any time I am away, which would be all night and all day except for the two or so hours that I can observe them?

So, if you're gone so much, why do you have 2 puppies you're trying to train? I agree with others who said they think you should re-home one of the puppies. I've never raised 2 puppies at one time, but even if they were housedogs, it seems like it would be a lot of work.

I've also never had a problem getting my dogs to bond with me, but our one outside dog----which I would consider a LGD (GSD), we got when she was already 5, and she is very bonded to me. I hope everything works out w/o any disasters happening.​