LGD Question

[CAjerseychick]

I am definitely not an expert.....but, I disagree. My Yorkshire Terrier would NOT EVER be a good LGD.

-would kill my birds immediately, and more than likely become the meal of a hawk as well. (I wouldn't put any terrier breed with chickens - large or small, based upon their natural instincts and inclinations.) -but, I do agree that per past experience with Pyrenees, they make excellent guardians. -no experience with Rotts, so no opinion offered.

Yup I second that on Terriers- giant schnauzers supposedly were herding dogs/ farm dogs as well but mine is not transitioning to our minifarm very well she is a def liability to our livestock.. maybe had she been raised from puppyhood on a Farm/ around livestock. she would have been better... She doesnt herd but she "catches" pretty darn well....Sigh

 

[galanie]

Any breed of dog can be taught to be a livestock guardian. Even for chickens. The one I responded to suggested that rotts would be better than a Pyrenees or maremma. I don't think so, and I didn't want such a statement to go unanswered. I still think the best would be the breeds raised not to herd livestock, but to guard it. Your opinion is of course different. That doesn't make either of us experts in the field.

I am definitely not an expert.....but, I disagree. My Yorkshire Terrier would NOT EVER be a good LGD.  -would kill my birds immediately, and more than likely become the meal of a hawk as well. (I wouldn't put any terrier breed with chickens - large or small, based upon their natural instincts and inclinations.) -but, I do agree that per past experience with Pyrenees, they make excellent guardians. -no experience with Rotts, so no opinion offered.

LOL! That's why I said any breed can be trained, not any individual dog. I'd be willing to bet someone will pop up with a terrier that they swear rocks as an LGD!!

 

[centrarchid]

I am using a bird dog, soon to be bird dogs, as an LGD. Works great on coyotes on down in respect to size and possibly better than the larger standard LGD's when it comes to red foxes with my dispersed and largely non-fenced setting. Limitation is when threat is another dog that is as big or bigger than my dog which not hard to beat at 65 lbs. He can very effectively distract a similar sized dog from making kills but is more likely to incur vet bills in process if such a dog decided to actually fight mine. A single standard LGD would be able to kill outright a dog that gives my single dog troubles. I am forced to compensate by having two dogs fotr next production season. An interesting observation is that dogs I have seen intent on causing harm to chickens seem not motivated to fight while a single dog with intent on getting into dogfight was not all that interested in chickens. One track mind operating possibly?

To make you think about what I have learned. If I were to switch over to a fenced system having birds co-grazed with sheep and goats, then a larger LGD will be pursued to protect the confined mammals as they are likely to attract actual packs during time of year my birds presently are not free ranged.

 

[CAjerseychick]

I am using a bird dog, soon to be bird dogs, as an LGD. Works great on coyotes on down in respect to size and possibly better than the larger standard LGD's when it comes to red foxes with my dispersed and largely non-fenced setting. Limitation is when threat is another dog that is as big or bigger than my dog which not hard to beat at 65 lbs. He can very effectively distract a similar sized dog from making kills but is more likely to incur vet bills in process if such a dog decided to actually fight mine. A single standard LGD would be able to kill outright a dog that gives my single dog troubles. I am forced to compensate by having two dogs fotr next production season. An interesting observation is that dogs I have seen intent on causing harm to chickens seem not motivated to fight while a single dog with intent on getting into dogfight was not all that interested in chickens. One track mind operating possibly?

To make you think about what I have learned. If I were to switch over to a fenced system having birds co-grazed with sheep and goats, then a larger LGD will be pursued to protect the confined mammals as they are likely to attract actual packs during time of year my birds presently are not free ranged.

Hmmm I think the hunting instinct vs guarding/ fighting instincts are very different drives.... I have a Bernese Mt dog, a Boxer, and a giant Schnauzer and they all operate very differently, very different things "drive" them-- the Bernese is def hands down the best at being a farm dog out of the 3 yet he also guards his homestead (without wanting to eat any of his Flock!)....
PS centrarchid my friend swears by his 2 Guardian LLamas (they have been known to kill rotties) that he got free off Craigslist....

 

[centrarchid]

Hmmm I think the hunting instinct vs guarding/ fighting instincts are very different drives.... I have a Bernese Mt dog, a Boxer, and a giant Schnauzer and they all operate very differently, very different things "drive" them-- the Bernese is def hands down the best at being a farm dog out of the 3 yet he also guards his homestead (without wanting to eat any of his Flock!)....
PS centrarchid my friend swears by his 2 Guardian LLamas (they have been known to kill rotties) that he got free off Craigslist....

When I am considering options for livestock guardians issues of cost and risk of failure considered. I did consider donkeys and llamas but do not have pasture to support them and, especially this year with drought they would be probitively expensive to maintain. My operation is not intended to be profitable so is small in scale. Even when peak desired production reaches nearly 500 birds during coarse of year I am still well below what would pay for keeping multiple large guardians. This year looks like I will hatch only 120 to control what will likely be very high late season feed costs so way, way below profit zone. This is for fun.

The breed as a factor (nature) is not all that important when training (nurture) promotes behaviors that otherwise would not be dominant. Dogs typically much more flexible than breed descriptions indicate. Flexibility still varies by breed and individual. My little bird dog will take on a threat just like a larger bred for purpose LGD inpart because considerable effort was invested in getting him interested in the activity. Shave you big LGD's, paint them brown, and reduce their size by half and you will have a dog that behaves a lot like mine against a threat that fights back. Mine even sounds like a small Great Pyrenees when barking at another dog although bark is different for raccoon or oppossum but sadly not for skunk. For me to know ID of varmint I am assisiting with helps me prepare. Big difference would be with smart fast predator where my dog would employ a range of options to try and actually catch varmint while the standard LGD would bark a lot and move directly at threat as making ruckuss. My dog barks too but usually reserves that for when varmint already knows it is being pursued or my dog has it somehow cornered. Latter is where my dog is special as he recruits me to help him get at critter. With fox it is game to catch varmint by being sneakiy while with coons and sometimes oppossums they often find cover like tree, pipe or even pen dog can not get into. Dog fetches me and he gets access to varmint.