Lilac Indian runner? Genetics

[Waddlewoods]

Hey.

So I have this one ducklings who is unlike any I've hatched before. I thought it was a silver but it's now starting to get feathers and it's much more brown but still blue than my silvers are. Is it lilac?

This hatch has a great array of colours. Black, chocolate, blue.

Parents are:

Solid black hen
Silver hen
Blue bibbed drake
White drake with black dots

Would also be interested in any insight as to who the parents are of any of the ducklings. I just find this all so fascinating!

 

[Papaye]

Hi.

I have compared your duckling colour with my Silver Duclair drakelet's one... and yeah : the colour is different.

For comparison, here he was at 4-weeks-old :

You can see Silver ducklings' fluff AND feathers are lighter coloured than your Runner's, so you know your little one is definitively NOT Silver coloured...

Now, if he is Lilac or not... or Lavender (?)... I can't tell - since I am no expert -; but still : to me, he looks like he is?

White drake with black dots

...What...?

Is he, in fact, a White coloured Indian Runner drake with leakages...?

Would also be interested in any insight as to who the parents are of any of the ducklings. I just find this all so fascinating!

I am curious as well...!

I don't know if it can help, but just in case... you can already read it :
• https://www.duskyfeatherswaterfowl.com/lavender-indian-runner,
• https://backyardpoultry.iamcountryside.com/poultry-101/self-color-ducks-lavender-and-lilac/.

(Hard to see on your picture : does your Lilac (?) Runner duckling have a bib?)
(And do you think your White drake could carry the Brown gene?)

 

[Waddlewoods]

Hi.

I have compared your duckling colour with my Silver Duclair drakelet's one... and yeah : the colour is different.

For comparison, here he was at 4-weeks-old :

View attachment 3952935

You can see Silver ducklings' fluff AND feathers are lighter coloured than your Runner's, so you know your little one is definitively NOT Silver coloured...

Now, if he is Lilac or not... or Lavender (?)... I can't tell - since I am no expert -; but still : to me, he looks like he is?



...What...?

Is he, in fact, a White coloured Indian Runner drake with leakages...?



I am curious as well...!

I don't know if it can help, but just in case... you can already read it :
• https://www.duskyfeatherswaterfowl.com/lavender-indian-runner,
• https://backyardpoultry.iamcountryside.com/poultry-101/self-color-ducks-lavender-and-lilac/.

(Hard to see on your picture : does your Lilac (?) Runner duckling have a bib?)
(And do you think your White drake could carry the Brown gene?)

Thank you for the response!

I have read the dusky feathers article and even ordered some hatching eggs in the spring but unfortunately we had a predator wipe out all our ducklings.

The other article you linked was very interesting!! I'm actually wondering if my Silver Hen is actually a lilac as she is almost white but with light blue and faded chocolate spots. I'll try and get a good pic.

The lilac duckling in question wasn't bibbed but the past couple days it seems to be developing light patches on it's neck and head. I'll try and get better pics.

My Black & White Runner Drake (Ancona kinda pattern but minimal - see pics) is mainly white with black dots and freckles. His brother was similar but more black (pics). As a baby he had black on his bill - not sure if that means anything. From talking to others more knowledgeable than I on genetics it was thought he carries the runner and bibbed genes similar to Ancona or Magpie. He may carry chocolate? I assume any ducklings that have a pattern (runner, Ancona/Magpie type) is from him?

My Blue Bibbed Drake may have also carried a dose of Chocolate dilution. He also had "rust" which I have read some people believe to be chocolate bleed through?

So if either of my drakes had a dose of chocolate it would make sense that paired with my silver and her dbl dose of blue I could end up with lavender or lilac.

 

[Waddlewoods]

I should add that I had a silver drake who's fluff was rather dark as a baby, almost green. He was absolutely gorgeous! Like liquid Silver. Unfortunately I had to re-home him as he was being mean to our other drakes. I was hoping this one was going to be similar to him but now that I'm starting to see feathers they have more brown to them.

Attaching a pic of the silver drake I'm referring to...

 

[Papaye]

Thank you for the response!

You are welcome!

I have read the dusky feathers article and even ordered some hatching eggs in the spring but unfortunately we had a predator wipe out all our ducklings.

I am sorry for you. Had to be really hard...

The other article you linked was very interesting!! I'm actually wondering if my Silver Hen is actually a lilac as she is almost white but with light blue and faded chocolate spots. I'll try and get a good pic.

To me, your hen is Silver/Splash coloured.
But more pictures would be indeed appreciated!

The lilac duckling in question wasn't bibbed but the past couple days it seems to be developing light patches on it's neck and head. I'll try and get better pics.

Ooooooh... that's so interesting...!!

Pictures would be great, yes! Especially since the ones showing Lilac/Lavender Indian Runners are so hard to find...!!

My Black & White Runner Drake (Ancona kinda pattern but minimal - see pics) is mainly white with black dots and freckles. His brother was similar but more black (pics). As a baby he had black on his bill - not sure if that means anything.

Okay... so none of them are actually (solid) White...
Good to at least know that.

From talking to others more knowledgeable than I on genetics it was thought he carries the runner and bibbed genes similar to Ancona or Magpie.

Yes.

The brother clearly has the Runner gene : you can see the pattern on his body looks like the Fawn and White one.
(Very easy to guess especiallyt thanks to the so perfect pattern on his wings...)

He also has the bib gene : again, you can easily guess it by looking at him, given he has so much white on his front...

...Your white drake looks like his brother, but just whiter...
So : he has the Runner AND the Bib genes, but has inherited of a more diluted phase (or whatever you would call that)...

(NOTE : even though I have learned a lot about colour genetics, I am still just guessing here!)

He may carry chocolate?

That would be possible, yes.
Fawn and White duck do carry the Brown gene... right?

And if he carry the Runner gene - meaning the Pied gene -, then your boy should also carry the Brown gene...(?)

I assume any ducklings that have a pattern (runner, Ancona/Magpie type) is from him?

Now we know a bit more, you are probably right : not only they are partly Runner patterned, but one of these ones is also Brown coloured...

My Blue Bibbed Drake may have also carried a dose of Chocolate dilution. He also had "rust" which I have read some people believe to be chocolate bleed through?

Are you refering to a Calico spot?

An example would be the Blue drake here : https://www.duskyfeatherswaterfowl.com/pencilled-bibbed-black

So if either of my drakes had a dose of chocolate it would make sense that paired with my silver and her dbl dose of blue I could end up with lavender or lilac.

If your Blue drake has an ordinary bib - meaning the smaller ones kind -, then I don't think he would be the father of your brown ducklings... especially given one of them probably carry the Runner/Pied gene, and your Blue drake does not... (I think so at least...?!)

I would then think your Lilac duckling to be the offspring of your White drake, and your Silver/Splash hen.

(I even have looked at THE CALCULATOR to be sure it could be a possibility!!
I put "Chocolate" for the drake, and "Silver/Splash" for the hen...)

I should add that I had a silver drake who's fluff was rather dark as a baby, almost green.

Do you have a picture?

My Silver coloured Duclair looked like a Snowy duckling...
I was then so confused, since I did not buy eggs from a Snowy coloured duck...!! (Nor from a Splash one, in fact...!!)

(I took my sweet time to understand this duckling was a Splash coloured Duclair drakelet...!)

Unfortunately I had to re-home him as he was being mean to our other drakes.

That's a shame.

Attaching a pic of the silver drake I'm referring to...

I am really grateful to you for posting a picture of your Splash Indian Runner drake : even though this colour is just splendid, pictures are really hard to find...

 

[Waddlewoods]

You are welcome!



I am sorry for you. Had to be really hard...



To me, your hen is Silver/Splash coloured.
But more pictures would be indeed appreciated!



Ooooooh... that's so interesting...!!

Pictures would be great, yes! Especially since the ones showing Lilac/Lavender Indian Runners are so hard to find...!!



Okay... so none of them are actually (solid) White...
Good to at least know that.



Yes.

The brother clearly has the Runner gene : you can see the pattern on his body looks like the Fawn and White one.
(Very easy to guess especiallyt thanks to the so perfect pattern on his wings...)

He also has the bib gene : again, you can easily guess it by looking at him, given he has so much white on his front...

...Your white drake looks like his brother, but just whiter...
So : he has the Runner AND the Bib genes, but has inherited of a more diluted phase (or whatever you would call that)...

(NOTE : even though I have learned a lot about colour genetics, I am still just guessing here!)



That would be possible, yes.
Fawn and White duck do carry the Brown gene... right?

And if he carry the Runner gene - meaning the Pied gene -, then your boy should also carry the Brown gene...(?)



Now we know a bit more, you are probably right : not only they are partly Runner patterned, but one of these ones is also Brown coloured...



Are you refering to a Calico spot?

An example would be the Blue drake here : https://www.duskyfeatherswaterfowl.com/pencilled-bibbed-black



If your Blue drake has an ordinary bib - meaning the smaller ones kind -, then I don't think he would be the father of your brown ducklings... especially given one of them probably carry the Runner/Pied gene, and your Blue drake does not... (I think so at least...?!)

I would then think your Lilac duckling to be the offspring of your White drake, and your Silver/Splash hen.

(I even have looked at THE CALCULATOR to be sure it could be a possibility!!
I put "Chocolate" for the drake, and "Silver/Splash" for the hen...)



Do you have a picture?

My Silver coloured Duclair looked like a Snowy duckling...
I was then so confused, since I did not buy eggs from a Snowy coloured duck...!! (Nor from a Splash one, in fact...!!)

(I took my sweet time to understand this duckling was a Splash coloured Duclair drakelet...!)



That's a shame.



I am really grateful to you for posting a picture of your Splash Indian Runner drake : even though this colour is just splendid, pictures are really hard to find...

Ok awesome! Loving the info.

Here are some pics of my Silver Hen...

You can see that she has very faint brown sprinkled throughout.

Here are some better pics of the lightest (lilac?) duckling...

You can see the brownish purple feathers starting and the lighter patches on the neck and head.

Here's a pic of my Blue Drake...

Hard to see in this pic but he developed rust coloured feathers around his wings and underneath. So not a calico spot. I was told this can happen with blue ducks and I read that it may be an indication that the duck is heterozygous for chocolate.

Here is my silver drake I had to give up...

It's funny because I have hatched 100s of ducklings this year and not one of them has ended up with an orange bill like my drake. I'm guessing that's not a very dominant gene?

This is all so fascinating!

 

[Jenbirdee]

woweee your ducks and ducklings are so beautiful and your photography skills are excellent Are you anywhere in the Maryland USA area? I could use a couple of runner ducks that are so gorgeous like yours if you have any to spare…

 

[Waddlewoods]

woweee your ducks and ducklings are so beautiful and your photography skills are excellent Are you anywhere in the Maryland USA area? I could use a couple of runner ducks that are so gorgeous like yours if you have any to spare…

Thank you! I really enjoy them.

I'm in Canada. A bit too far.

 

[cheezenkwackers]

I think your duckling has two blue alleles with the brown. I’m not sure if that is Lilac or Lavender as Holderread said that was Lavender but other books say that is Lilac. If so, your Blue drake has to be the daddy and carry one brown allele. If this duckling is a drake, then, your female does indeed also carry brown. This is a duck of mine who has only one blue allele and sex-linked brown. Her mother was a silver Swedish and her father was a Khaki Campbell. She is much darker than your which is why I think yours has 2 blue.

 

[Papaye]

Hi.

Here are some pics of my Silver Hen...

You can see that she has very faint brown sprinkled throughout.

Here is what I found :

"Many colors can be produced with a combination of Black, Blue, and Brown, all of which will be black based birds, even when the bird looks nearly white (as can be the case in Silver and Lilac)"

Source - "Dusky Feathers Waterfowl" : https://www.duskyfeatherswaterfowl.com/pencilled-bibbed-black

Does it imply Lilac ducks can sometimes be so light coloured they almost look White...?
If so, it would then mean your Silver/Splash Indian Runner hen could actually be Lilac... right?

That's interesting, because I would not have thought it to be possible for her to NOT be a real Splash coloured duck...!

Here are some better pics of the lightest (lilac?) duckling...

You can see the brownish purple feathers starting and the lighter patches on the neck and head.

Here's a pic of my Blue Drake...

The white patches are on the same area on the neck... so it could be possible for your Blue drake to be your duckling's father...?

I mean... :

If so, your Blue drake has to be the daddy and carry one brown allele.

...if a Blue duck can also carry Brown...

(Wow... I am always learning things!!
And I now wonder just HOW did I not think about it AFTER seeing the pictures of Dusky Feathers Waterflown's Blue Indian Runner drake with BROWN Calico spots...?!!)

Besides... :

This is a duck of mine who has only one blue allele and sex-linked brown. Her mother was a silver Swedish and her father was a Khaki Campbell. She is much darker than your which is why I think yours has 2 blue.

This (beautiful) girl has a similar colour to your Lilac coloured duckling...?

So, your Lilac duckling may be the offspring of your BLUE drake and your Silver hen...?

Here is my silver drake I had to give up...

Looking carefully at him... don't you feel he could carry the Brown gene?

Indeed : your boy kind of looks brownish/purplish...
...and even when he was just a fluffy newborn duckling, he was kind of tannish - so, actually differently coloured from my Silver drakelet (that was then mostly darkish yellow)...

He looks amazing, but given I am not so familiar with Silver/Splash ducks... I do wonder if a Splash drake is supposed to look like yours, or if he should "just" be coloured as "silver liquid"?

In any case, I would have liked to be the one to adopt him!!

Thank you - sincerely - for the pictures!

It's funny because I have hatched 100s of ducklings this year and not one of them has ended up with an orange bill like my drake.

You have hatched HUNDREDS of ducklings?!!

Oh my God... that's a lot!
Just for 2024, my chicken hens have hatched 56 ducklings - if I am remembering right -, and... I thought it was A LOT...!!

Wow...

What do you do with as many ducklings...?
Do you sell them?
(I so would have bought Runners from you, if I lived near you...! You have so beautiful colours...!!)

I'm guessing that's not a very dominant gene?

This is all so fascinating!

It is (fascinating).

I am still waiting for someone to explain to me the Blue wing speculum gene : one of my Light Dusky Indian Runner drake has Blue/Purple wing speculum... and I don't understand how he could have it, since he is born an ordinarily coloured Light Dusky duckling...?
(Is it a mutation? If so, will his Light Dusky offsprings have it...?
I am so curious...!!)