Limping/dying ducks

[Suzie]

Thanks!

The houses are cleaned and disinfected every day - bedding is straw... strange that my Muscovy ducks are in perfect health - sadly in France they would not necropsy... it would take a month of Sundays to try and explain to a hysterical (with laughter ) Vet that I was concerned for my flock... I am on my own but thankful of BYC members to give me great advice and support! All feed is in plastic bins with secure lids... only problems that I can think of are wild birds and rats getting into accommodation...

Merry Christmas!

Suzie

 

[cowcreekgeek]

I have chickens 'n guineas, so I tend to focus my studies on them. But, the limping, the green droppings ... something viral, and possibly some form of enteritis that affects waterfowl?

In particular, the fact that one breed appears more sensitive to whatever's goin' on might be an important clue as to what they're actually infected with.

In example, Duck Viral Enteritis was reportedly resulting in very high mortality rates of heavy ducks, but the Call ducks and geese were all right. But, in another case of the same infection, all the light ducks died and the Call ducks also survived.

In my own experiences w/ several battles w/ the toxins produced by botulism bacteria, there were no losses of the black 'n white speckled birds, and most birds w/ darker pigmentation in their legs showed the greater symptoms, and the highest mortality rates. In each case, it was reasonable to believe exposure levels were similar for all birds, as the opportunity for intoxification was equal.

Of the aforementioned, in regard to waterfowl, I found specific quotes:

"Perhaps the unaffected birds had natural immunity."

"Muscovies are generally thought to be at greatest risk and are probably an early indicator that something is wrong. Worryingly, it is reported that affected birds which survive can be carriers of the disease."

Check under their tongues for any signs of lesions, as this would be indicative of viral infection. However, an absence of one isn't any assurance that they're not carriers. Some pathogens associated with enteritis, such as Escherichia coli, are found to be resistant to the tetracyclines. The active ingredient w/in Tylan 50 is Tylosin:

Tylosin has a wide spectrum of activity against gram positive bacteria including Staphylococci, Streptococci, Corynebacteria, and Erysipelothrix. It has a much narrower gram negative spectrum of activity, but has been shown to be active against Campylobacter coli, and certain spirochaetes. It has also been shown to be extremely active against Mycoplasma species isolated from both mammalian and avian hosts.

This may sound odd, but the manner in which a bird dies can sometimes narrow the range of possible infections ... frustrating, when you've gotta look to how one dies in order to hopefully improve the treatment for another, but it's sometimes all you've really got.

I would think the necropsy should have definitively answered whether aflatoxicosis was the cause, but determinations regarding viral infections can be very time sensitive ... the enlarged liver may be indicative of a specific range of diseases, although it could still be unrelated to the cause of death. I really wish I could help pin this down for ya ... the flock-wide heavy losses is such a miserable thing to go through )-;~

 

[casportpony]

..................................................................snip..............................................

I would think the necropsy should have definitively answered whether aflatoxicosis was the cause, but determinations regarding viral infections can be very time sensitive ... the enlarged liver may be indicative of a specific range of diseases, although it could still be unrelated to the cause of death. I really wish I could help pin this down for ya ... the flock-wide heavy losses is such a miserable thing to go through )-;~

That's sort of what I thought. Which reminds me, the pathologist that I use, Dr. Shivaprasad, mentioned that it would be helpful if the next time I have one going his way, to collect some blood in a "red top tube" before death and send it with the body.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

That's sort of what I thought. Which reminds me, the pathologist that I use, Dr. Shivaprasad, mentioned that it would be helpful if the next time I have one going his way, to collect some blood in a "red top tube" before death and send it with the body.

It sounds like your good Dr. Shivaprasad is very unusually thorough.
But, I had no idea why specifically a 'red top tube' was suggested 'til now ...

Red top tube - Serology and Immunohematology. Red top tube - Chemistry. Light Green top or Green top. Lavender top. Pink top tube (Blood Bank EDTA) ...


Color coding the samples ... what a good idea ... glad somebody thought of it some hundred years or so ago ~'-)

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Some additional information on Duck Plague, otherwise known as DVE, Duck Virus Enteritis, or Duck Viral Enteritis.

I wouldn't have recognized this so definitively for another, had I not recently researched this for your thread, as I'm more tightly focused on chickens and guineas. To God, and in both cases, I pray that I'm wrong ... but, I really don't believe that I am.

​

Death sequence observed during terminal stages of duck plague infection at Lake Andes National Wildlife Refuge began with (A) the head of the bird dropping forward, wings becoming partially extended from the sides, and tail becoming fanned and rigid. This was followed by (B) the bird swimming in a tight circle while rapidly beating the water with its wings and with the head pulled back and twisted to the side. (C) At times, birds would fall over on their side, be unable to regain a normal body position, and drown. (D) Other birds would simply stop swimming, relax, and quietly die. This entire sequence generally lasted only a few minutes.

Although their absence isn't any guarantee that it isn't DVE, there may be 'cold sores' observed under the tongue of some infected birds:

​

Note the plastic gloves they're wearing. You can pick 'em up very cheaply, and they should be changed between each and every bird you handle. There is a product called OdaBan -- it's a concentrated virucide that produced 32 gallons that can be sprayed in any manner you wish -- anything you keep wet for 60 seconds will be sterilized sufficiently to avoid further spreading, and I'd even spray the dirt I walked on. Again? It's an almost impossible task, in that you're attempting to control a virus that's already been spread. But, for certain: Do NOT go near any other flocks, and change out your shoes before you leave your property, so as to hopefully not have others suffer through this as well.

The best initial link to begin understanding what you're dealing with is Chapter 16 of the USGS Field Manual of Wildlife Diseases. I'll follow up w/ more resources, and will help in any way that I can. Again? I'm really sorry.

 

[casportpony]

Muscovynmore, you should contact your state vet:

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[casportpony]

Is this the place that did you necropsy?

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Raleigh, N.C. 27611

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[Muscovynmore]

Sorry, I've been gone for a few days. I took my duck to Rollins Laboratory.

Here are some quotes from the report:

General Results: ...The liver was slightly yellowish and mottled with reddish and grayish foci.
There were few petechial hemorrhages on the epicardial surface of the heart. The spleen and kidneys were enlarged. ...Tissues were collected for histopathology.

Histopathology
General Results: Sections of brain, heart, lung, liver, kidney, spleen, and pancreas were examined. Liver: Marked loss of hepatocytes and
replacement by proliferating (hyperplastic) bile ductules, with several regenerative hepatocyte nodules and fatty
vacuolation of hepatocytes. Other tissues: No lesions were identified (note: Kidney, spleen, and pancreas had significant
postmortem autolytic changes, could not be evaluated optimally)

Diagnosis: The microscopic lesions in the liver arouse suspicion of the possibility of aflatoxicosis (toxicity with the mycotoxin
aflatoxin).
The trachea of the bird was negative for avian influenza virus and avian paramyxovirus type 1 (see the results of
molecular diagnostics). The cultures of the liver and spleen did not yield a bacterial growth (see the bacteriology results).

Comments: It seems that the bird did not die from an infectious disease. On the basis of microscopic lesion in the liver,
aflatoxicosis is a possibility. Make sure that the feed given to the ducks are not contaminated with a mycotoxin, especially
aflatoxin. Since I did not examine the ducks that died earlier, I cannot comment about the possible cause of their death; it
is possible that the other ducks have died from a different disease.


DVE does seem like a possible (and probably likely) cause, but I'd rather not jump to conclusions. None of my Black Swedishes or adult Muscovies were affected, which doesn't match up. Some Muscovy ducklings were probably killed by whatever the Anconas have. None of our geese were affected.

I checked one of the ducks' mouths and found nothing. Not all of the DVE symptoms match up—especially how it's not long term and I didn't see cold symptoms on the list. But yes, I recognize that all my ducks could be carriers. I'm just not completely convinced. . . .

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Sorry, I've been gone for a few days. I took my duck to Rollins Laboratory.

Here are some quotes from the report:

General Results: ...The liver was slightly yellowish and mottled with reddish and grayish foci.
There were few petechial hemorrhages on the epicardial surface of the heart. The spleen and kidneys were enlarged. ...Tissues were collected for histopathology.

Histopathology
General Results: Sections of brain, heart, lung, liver, kidney, spleen, and pancreas were examined. Liver: Marked loss of hepatocytes and
replacement by proliferating (hyperplastic) bile ductules, with several regenerative hepatocyte nodules and fatty
vacuolation of hepatocytes. Other tissues: No lesions were identified (note: Kidney, spleen, and pancreas had significant
postmortem autolytic changes, could not be evaluated optimally)

Diagnosis: The microscopic lesions in the liver arouse suspicion of the possibility of aflatoxicosis (toxicity with the mycotoxin
aflatoxin).
The trachea of the bird was negative for avian influenza virus and avian paramyxovirus type 1 (see the results of
molecular diagnostics). The cultures of the liver and spleen did not yield a bacterial growth (see the bacteriology results).

Comments: It seems that the bird did not die from an infectious disease. On the basis of microscopic lesion in the liver,
aflatoxicosis is a possibility. Make sure that the feed given to the ducks are not contaminated with a mycotoxin, especially
aflatoxin. Since I did not examine the ducks that died earlier, I cannot comment about the possible cause of their death; it
is possible that the other ducks have died from a different disease.


DVE does seem like a possible (and probably likely) cause, but I'd rather not jump to conclusions. None of my Black Swedishes or adult Muscovies were affected, which doesn't match up. Some Muscovy ducklings were probably killed by whatever the Anconas have. None of our geese were affected.

I checked one of the ducks' mouths and found nothing. Not all of the DVE symptoms match up—especially how it's not long term and I didn't see cold symptoms on the list. But yes, I recognize that all my ducks could be carriers. I'm just not completely convinced. . . .

The mycotoxin poisoning can cause similar symptoms, and aflatoxin is often found on grains. It's a shame the organs prevented further examination, as you had somebody pretty thorough in their efforts to find definitive answers.

The 'cold sores' don't always appear ... as is typical of herpes type viral infections.

And, you're takin' the right approach -- rule nothing out, including the possibility that there are multiple causes.

 

[Muscovynmore]

Huh, come to think of it, the ducks probably weren't the only ones affected. We used the same corn (the mold-suspect ingredient) for all of our animals, and had some interesting coincidences. Namely, all the ducks stopped laying, the hens (sixteen or so) went down to an egg or two a day, and the dairy goats dried up a whole lot faster than they should have.