Livestock Guardian Dogs

[centrarchid]

Some of English Collies push 70 lbs and are among those with multipurpose capabilities. I have seen a few now and they very similar to my German Pointers although my dogs take longer to mature. At one time the English Collie was a general farm dog that guarded barnyard and home as well as could used for some hunting and herding. They are hard to get a hold of. More than one best. I like them.

 

[aoxa]

Some good points about what type of protection you need from a LGD.

I would say that Bernese Mt Dogs are best as family pets first, and guarding secondary. Berners want to be with their families in the home at night, so if your animals are locked up securely at night, they'd be great as they can be inside at night with you, but they'll enjoy guarding and patrolling their home territory during the day. They were also bred for droving cattle in the Alps, so have a driving instinct.

Other breeds that are more aloof and bred just for guarding, like Maremmas, are obviously OK to leave out at night with the farm animals as many of you know who have them.

Another breed to consider for speediness and guarding as well as herding ability are English Shepherds, I understand they are excellent LGDs and are more on the order of border collie size, not sure about any health issues though.

Some of English Collies push 70 lbs and are among those with multipurpose capabilities. I have seen a few now and they very similar to my German Pointers although my dogs take longer to mature. At one time the English Collie was a general farm dog that guarded barnyard and home as well as could used for some hunting and herding. They are hard to get a hold of. More than one best. I like them.

Yes my friend has an English Shepherd and is used as a general LGD. Daytime guarding only I believe. Very agile and highly intelligent.

According to their club site, 35-65 pounds is their weight range. I wouldn't want them taking on any large predators like coyotes or foxes (even if they are a tad larger).

My corgi (X - mother was Black Lab x Beagle, father purebred Pembroke Welsh Corgi - takes after his father) never needed to be trained around the chickens, and is incredibly territorial with any other animal that does not belong. He weighs about the same as a small English Shepherd.


Quote: So far he drives away predators instead of killing them. He's chased off cats, raccoons and pinned a loose beagle down that had a scent. I could not get that dog, too busy with his tracking. I told Koda to get him, and he tackled dog to the ground.

He has not once ever got mouthy with a chicken. Even while being attacked by many broodies. He looks at me with these eyes that say "help?" but he does not like the goats yet.


Sure he's small.. But for anyone considering a working dog that is not 100 pounds, and who can handle small predators like cats, raccoons, minks, weasels, etc: This breed could work for you. The corgi that is..

Also, they have SUPER hearing. He would hear things before the Great Pyr easily.

He is 9 years old now, and is incredibly agile. No arthritis at all. The breed lives 12-15 years. Matures quickly. Roams less.

He worked really well with my Great Pyr. They were a good team. Now Koda is very good at showing Henry the ropes. Often correcting him if he gets too excited around the poultry.

Can you tell I'm smitten with him? I don't think I could love an animal any more than him.

 

[centrarchid]

The breed used is very likely to be a function of your location and management system for the poultry. My 50 to 65 lb German Pointers can kill red foxes in seconds (male by himself takes a couple minutes) and they handily dominate the local coyotes that seldom exceed 35 lbs and do not form packs larger than breeding pair and non-combatant pups. Adult coyotes here usually hunt singly rather than as a pack even though usually maintaining a territory in cooperation with a mate. Northeastern coyotes integrated with gray wolf would exceed my dogs' abilities as they are as big as my dogs and do form packs similar to gray wolves.



With respect to management, I have to deal with roaming domestic dogs that can number from one to five in a pack. We can whip one or two pretty easy but the five of which a couple are bull mastiff x pitbull will be able to overwhelm even a pair of larger LGD's. I took out largest of that pack myself even though my dog complicated matter. Now I simply use some electrified fencing that my dogs know their way around that otherwise stops other dogs. The result is dogs now have wildlife as biggest concern which is what I want.

My flock size and their keeping varies greatly with season. During production season which gets hot, my dogs' short coat is a decided asset even at night when dogs patrolling almost at a run or pursuing a raccoon through heavy brush. My birds are also increasingly spread out as season progresses and made mostly of juveniles forcing dogs to be moving about a lot to keep in contact with their charges. During day predator issues seem to be limited to Mr. Red Fox and Red-tailed hawk and chickens help dogs locate those pesky buggers. At night predators more frequent and dogs have total freedom of movement which includes house. Short hair helps there with respect to bringing in nasty stuff on coat. During winter the flock size is considerably smaller (50 to 75 adult birds) and most are confined to pens that two or more perimeters of hot-wire. Dogs still go out but combination of wire and pens really slows varments down making dogs' job easy. During winter dogs go out for a couple hours in total spread out over several patrols. They will go out whenever chickens act up and they are fast. Most of the kills scored against predators have occurred at night although foxes have been taken only during day even though they also visit at night. Most of time dogs simply chase bad guys off.

 

[Maggymay0369]

I trained my doberman to accept my chickens (this is a dog that will kill anything smaller then him on sight - groundhogs, snakes, squirrels, opossums, cats, etc. not to mention he's caught birds mid air). I started with introducing him to the chicks and correcting him if he got too pushy trying to sniff them... Eventually he understood. Now I can trust him to run around with the flock when they free range and his presence keeps away any threats.

 

[heatherhhobbs]

So I just bought a marema/pry cross and even though I have researched the breeds , I still feel a little uneasy about the agressiveness you read about. We have a small farm and lots of family and friends that come visit. I want a dog to keep preditors away but not one I have to worry about harming people.. I read your reply and thought I could ask how your experience has been,

 

[centrarchid]

So I just bought a marema/pry cross and even though I have researched the breeds , I still feel a little uneasy about the agressiveness you read about. We have a small farm and lots of family and friends that come visit. I want a dog to keep preditors away but not one I have to worry about harming people.. I read your reply and thought I could ask how your experience has been,

Number for comparison low but Marema where I work is a butt biter of men while all Great Pyrenees are good natured, just lots of bark until you get up on them. Overall, each dog is different and can override breed / cross.

 

[dalyn]

I have a GPY pup about 12 weeks old , How do I train her ? So far she has killed 2 and wants to play and chase them, HELP !

 

[centrarchid]

I have a GPY pup about 12 weeks old , How do I train her ? So far she has killed 2 and wants to play and chase them, HELP ! 

Welcome.


I would confine pup in close proximity to birds so continuously exposed to sights, smells and sounds of chickens. SInce a loan pup make so when direct interactions do occur it involves fully adult, standard sized chickens, preferably roosters. Direct interactions need to be supervised and you will have to get dog under control using standard training methods. Do not be surprized if dog is not fully trustworthy until 18 to 24 months. Fully trustworthy means continious confinement together without supervision.

Since poultry rather than typical sheep or goats are involved, you will likely need to treat your LGD as if it were not a livestock guarding breed since simple imprinting on birds is not likely to apply.

I would begin an exercise regimen with pup each day where you lead it on patrols of your property staying within boundaries. Periodically take it to confined birds, especially if they get excited about something like a passing hawk or other threat so dog starts keying in on chicken lingo for danger. Make so first unsupervised releases of dog occur at night but make certain birds can roost out of dog's reach. This will get you into some nighttime protection from critters like racoons and opossums. Dog may be closer to 9 months before being able to outright whip former but will still be able to alert you if trouble by barking. Dog will have a bigger problem with daytime predators like foxes and coyotes when flock dispersed to forage and predators engage in snatch and run strategies.

Try not to make pet of dog, it needs to be interested first in the poultry yard and trespassers. Avoid having pup getting attached to household or people.

 

[Chaz4Jazz]

best puppy training book - HOW TO TRAIN YOUR PUPPY by Beamish. Beamish was the head of the British Military K9 Dogs and came from being a Master of Hounds on wealthy landowners property. According to Beamish ANY dog can be trained to hunt. If they have a nose (and almost every dog as a good or great nose). Beamish had a white Alsatian that he hung]ted bird with, it found, "pointed" and retrieved for him. He also trained an Alsatian to leave the farm and go alone to the village intom the post office and bring home the mail, saving the postman a long trip out to the last farm on the road (the Beamish property).

As an owner of three dogs (in succession) I have had quality hunting dogs/hounds and a fabulous mutt. Following Beamish's advice I trained these dogs to hunt and to watch the house.

Now that we are planning to have chicken I will be looking for a dog to protect them from Coyotes (we live on a canyon in southern California) Bobcat, Possum, Raccoon and hawks...amusing thing is we have a family of Cooper Hawks living two houses down (other name: Chicken Hawk) LOL. SO, I;ll be in France in October and may bring home either a Picardy Shepherd or a Pyrennees Shepherd - not sure how the training will go...this time.

 

[peteyfoozer]

So I just bought a marema/pry cross and even though I have researched the breeds , I still feel a little uneasy about the agressiveness you read about. We have a small farm and lots of family and friends that come visit. I want a dog to keep preditors away but not one I have to worry about harming people.. I read your reply and thought I could ask how your experience has been,

Both Maremmas and Pyrs are considered 'soft' LGD's meaning they have the least amount of human aggression. I have a pair of Maremmas that show extreme discretion when people visit. We have strangers and strange dogs visit the ranch frequently and our dogs have set the front of the house as 'neutral territory' and are very laid back even when strange dogs try to be aggressive with them…but if the dogs approach the pasture where the livestock is, its a very different story. Nothing is allowed in there and they will defend my sheep/calves/poultry at all costs. With humans, as long as we have shown the dog that it is ok with us for a person to enter the house/yard/pasture, they accept that. We had one situation where a friend was going to relief milk for me but could not carry the bucket. My dogs knew her husband well and had no problem with his coming into the pasture and milk room as he had done with us before. However, when he went to carry the heavy bucket into our house, they both body blocked him and denied him entrance as they had never seen him IN our house before, so he didn't have the proper 'security clearance' to go there. REAL LGD's (LGD is a group of specific breeds developed to do a specific job. Other breeds are not LGD,s such as collies, dobies, etc. They fall into the working and herding groups) are incredibly intelligent but are independent thinkers. They rarely take cues from humans as the job requires them to make split second decisions so they are very different to work with than other breeds but the investment in learning what to do with them is well worth the effort.

If you are on FB, I highly recommend the LearningAboutLGD's forum there.