Logistics - is a fully enclosed run necessary?

[Folly's place]

About dogs, and predators generally: Some individual chickens will fly up into trees when scared, and are easy for raptors to get, or for climbing critters like raccoons. Other chickens freeze under shrubs on the ground, and are easy prey for ground predators.
Our worst episodes involved a sick fox who got ten free ranging hens one afternoon, and he seems to have selected birds who were producing eggs, not males or barren hens.
When our dog fence failed one day, one of our rescue dogs got out and killed over twenty birds in about an hour, boom, boom, boom, fast and efficient. She came from a fighting dog situation, lots of practice killing critters...
Raptors will take one bird at a time, never good, but a lot fewer deaths at once.
I'm glad you haven't had bad experience with predators and hope it continues...
Mary

 

[StinkyAcres]

From my perspective it looks like the average chicken owner keeps sickly breeds in unnatural, micromanaged conditions that create the perfect recipe for tragedy

I've heard countless stories about feral dogs killing entire flocks. Well I've had eight feral dogs attack over the years and not once did they touch a single chicken. The chickens just... flew away

I suspect the people having chickens die to stray dogs have them trapped somewhere with zero escape routes (ie a coop or small fenced in area) and possibly clipped wings as well. It's a man-made tragedy

If one has healthy breeds and doesn't trap them somewhere they're pretty good at keeping themselves alive

Well, yeah, that's what we humans do when we domesticate animals - we create breeds that cannot survive on their own. And some cannot free range due to reasons other than predators - escaping the property, pooping all over neighbors' yards and porches, freezing temperatures, etc.

 

[casportpony]

Our worst episodes involved a sick fox who got ten free ranging hens one afternoon, and he seems to have selected birds who were producing eggs, not males or barren hens.

Almost all of the ones I've lost to foxes are hens.

 

[Altairsky]

I have a coop with no run and I free range in my whole property (which is fenced but no predator proof).
If you free range you might lose birds to predators. But confined birds have other issues.

 

[No Coop No Problem]

Well, yeah, that's what we humans do when we domesticate animals - we create breeds that cannot survive on their own.

I was never talking about "surviving on their own". The specific example I used was escaping a dog and even my fat, old RIR are capable of this

And some cannot free range due to reasons other than predators - escaping the property, pooping all over neighbors' yards and porches, freezing temperatures, etc.

We all have different situations we're working with, and the purpose of my post was to point out general principles that many can apply regardless of their circumstances. Critiquing coops was only a portion of my post

 

[thecatumbrella]

From my perspective it looks like the average chicken owner keeps sickly breeds in unnatural, micromanaged conditions that create the perfect recipe for tragedy

My Pekins have entered the chat...

I think a rabbit could take them out, but the only thing that's getting in my pen is a bear. Or a downed tree. Maybe a silverback gorilla. OR the biggest predator of all... man.

I understand your sentiment. Someday I'll have a property where I can free range normal birds. But not today.

 

[ci_cyfarth]

I've kept chickens twice -- once several years ago, and we just started again -- and I chose to go with a fully enclosed run for a few reasons:

- We have pet dogs, and one of them has zero malice in his heart but is also desperate to play with chickens, who are not interested in that and also fragile.

- We're in the county, albeit near a local city. We have a healthy population of wild raptors, as well as a lively population of urban scavengers (possums, raccoons, coyotes). We mostly don't see the mammals in our backyard, but hawks have for sure landed back there to eat other prey.

- Lots of domestic cats just doing their thing in our neighborhood. Chickens are delicious. I don't want to resent my neighbors.

- Most of my yard time is near dawn, dinner hour, and dusk. Free ranging would mean a lot of unsupervised time, even without the dog angle.

- City ordinance requires it. We were in the city limits last time. While we're not this time, it worked well for us before in reducing possible predation as well as limiting pests getting in to the coop.

- I can set aside time for supervised foraging in good weather, e.g. letting them out while I do garden stuff in the mornings/on weekends.

- We have very hot summers, so we topped the run with translucent corrugated poly to give the coop and run consistent shade, as well as snow/rain protection.

I will say that keeping an enclosed run might require some extra work to keep it fun for the chickens. They'll eat what grass you start with, so that's a dual surfacing and snacking challenge if you want them to get fresh grass/weeds/etc., and you might need to experiment with things like gravel, wood chips, etc. if you want to avoid mud in there.

There are also people locally who just fully free-range their chickens and are happy with it, but they also accept the risks associated with it (e.g. predators, weather, cars, etc.) as part of the package.

 

[progressivehomesteader]

Welcome to BYC. The foxes here usually come at dusk, during the night, or at dawn, but in the last Month, for the first time in 15 years, I've seen them in broad daylight!

Where do you live?

I'm in Centerport near the Vanderbilt. I haven't seen many foxes in this area (I've been here almost 2 years). Lots of deer and racoons. But I know they are around bc they are noisy when they are in heat

 

[progressivehomesteader]

Sure you can do that. Might be ok for a while, even years perhaps - but that first time you go outside and feel the heartbreak when you see feathers everywhere and your favorite chickens dead or missing, you'll wish you just spent another $100-500 in whatever materials and invested another day of labor, to make things fully secured.

My 2nd run was fine for about 2yrs without overhead protection. Now it's fully secured. Known predators that got over the top were a great horn owl and bobcat

yeah I am convinced. We're going to go 360 degrees with the mesh. Not worth depending on good luck!

 

[progressivehomesteader]

Thanks everyone for your perspectives and experience. Some locals here have warned that if you do not enclose the run in hardware cloth that predators will dig, so I don't know if an apron is going to be sufficient. We'll have to cover with pine shavings to protect their feet. And while I cannot depend on free ranging consistently due to personal constraints, we do have a portable run that will act as a tractor here and there when we are outside and can be on the watch for and scare off raptors and daytime predators. And we may try free ranging after our property gets a proper fence.

Thank you all again for the feedback! happy to hear more