Looking Bad...

[tulie13]

Well, I thought we were out of the woods, but she seems to have taken a turn for the worse again. She won't/can't eat the mash/probiotics I give her, she's still "pooping" (if you can call it that) basically water with a few small "strings" of solidy-looking material. And this morning she threw up all by herself as I walked past her box - I wasn't touching her crop at all, or encouraging her to get rid of what was in there.

It's filled up again, and I know the poor girl is very uncomfortable. She was so full of water that she just couldn't hold it down and puked.

Whatever is in there seems to not be gone - maybe it had moved enough a couple of days ago to let some stuff through, but now it seems to be closing everything off again.

Someone mentioned massaging the crop with a "pinching" motion, in a downward direction. I've been "rubbing" it downward, but I'm afraid to pinch because I don't know what I'm doing. Should I work at this more? Wait and see? She's obviously not dehydrated, being fed ACV/vitamin water and still pooping liquid, so she's getting some liquid/nutrients. But this has been going on so long - I'm afraid the whole ORDEAL is going to kill her, just because of everything she's having to endure.

Should I move ahead to surgery? Or wait for this as a last resort (if her poops start drying up - sign of dehydration)? If I wait that long, aren't her survival chances significantly worse?

 

[4hooves&featheredfriends]

If I remember correctly she seemed to be improving, has the recent situation happened since she has been reintroduced to food?

If so, there may be an object in the crop - are these birds allowed to free range? You would be amazed at what chickens can find in the dirt.

 

[4hooves&featheredfriends]

Did anyone ask about worms? You mentioned stringy things in the feces. Just another thought.

With our situation, the first case, it was evident that if we didn't do something our chick would die. The second time around we saw the same symptoms so we didn't wait as long to do surgery.

It is your call as to the action you take and it is also how confident you can be to do the surgery; you do need two sets of hands.

 

[tulie13]

4hooves&featheredfriends :

If I remember correctly she seemed to be improving, has the recent situation happened since she has been reintroduced to food?

If so, there may be an object in the crop - are these birds allowed to free range? You would be amazed at what chickens can find in the dirt.

She seems to get better almost every day lately - her crop is down, she seems a little perkier, I think she's turning around and I don't need to go to something so drastic as surgery. I've only been feeding her small amounts of bread with olive oil, so no food that would need any real breaking down.

I fed her a small amount at 10 AM, then again at noon, and at 2 PM. SMALL amounts, like totaling less than a teaspoon volume each time. She has free access to the vitamin/ACV water. I left the house at 3:30 and she seemed fine. I got back at almost 6 PM and when I came in she was lying on the floor of her Rubbermaid bin sort of sideways, her crop TOTALLY bloated, and she is wet from spitting up on herself. She looks like she's about to die.

But this happened a day or two ago, also. She looked on the verge of death, I was ready to try to attempt surgery, and then after I held onto her for a while and massaged her crop some, it finally went down some. She went to bed in an "iffy" situation. In the morning, her crop was pretty much flat and she looked much better. This is REALLY CONFUSING.

I don't know if I should try the surgery just to eliminate the possibility that there IS an object of some sort in there. Could this be some weird genetic condition, like "weak crop muscles" that is going to plague her for her whole life? If this isn't an "impacted crop", could it just be a "sour crop"? And if so, surgery wouldn't help that, correct?

With regard to your question - the birds are in wooden coop that has an open floor to dirt - the walls are wood that basically butts up against the bare ground. So the natural dirt (and everything in it) are beneath the chickens. Their run is enclosed with chicken wire, but it's also just "the ground". There is some hay in the coop under where their roosts are. So what COULD she have eaten? Dirt, small rocks, who knows - my fear is a staple from our coop building, or a small piece of glass or something like that. But if that was the case, I would think there would be blood in her poop and she would have already died!

4hooves&featheredfriends :

Did anyone ask about worms? You mentioned stringy things in the feces. Just another thought.

With our situation, the first case, it was evident that if we didn't do something our chick would die. The second time around we saw the same symptoms so we didn't wait as long to do surgery.

It is your call as to the action you take and it is also how confident you can be to do the surgery; you do need two sets of hands.

The "stringy" things are just little pieces of poop, skinny strands of it, rather than big normal-sized poops. The watery poop is liquid with small skinny poopies in it. It looks just like the picture of "watery poop" on the page that shows all the different kinds of poop.

I'm at a loss. I just don't want to do surgery on her if there's not a clear sign that there is an OBJECT or a mass of material blocking the way. And I'm just not sure. But I don't know what else to do!

She's sitting in my lap right now wrapped in a towel, miserable because she is wet from throwing up on herself.

 

[jjthink]

poor girl - and poor you - any possibility of engaging an avian vets help so she can hopefully get through this without much more suffering...? it is confounding and wouldn't be easy for most to sort out w/o some experienced hands on help.
jj

 

[fargosmom]

Would an xray be of any use? It sure sounds like there's something blocking her crop . . .

 

[tulie13]

Quote:
That's a good idea, not sure if any vet around here will just X-Ray my chicken for me... should I see if I can take her on an airplane trip and put her in my carry-on luggage?

I did call one vet that used to just treat "large animals", so they are probably more farm-oriented than doggie/kittie/pet-oriented. They did advertise that they now treat small animals, too. So out of all the vets in my area, this one MIGHT be willing to see a chicken. And even if they don't TREAT her, they might be willing to do an X-Ray.

I really would like to just SEE if there is any REASON for me to try the crop surgery. She is just confounding - I woke up this morning, and she was basically laying down on the floor of her bin, sort of sideways, like she just fell there and couldn't get up. I put in a little bread/olive oil as her crop was flattened and not full - she snarfed it down pretty quickly and is now standing up. But I'd bet MONEY that this afternoon/evening her crop will be all blown out and she will be puking liquid again.

I'm going to start another thread with some food/digestive questions - to see how often I should feed her to try to make sure something is getting through.

 

[raroo]

Quote:
You would pinch gently, like softly squeezing the crop. It won't harm her. If you massage and get right in there, underneath the feathers so you feel skin, go toward the bottom of her crop and palpate the area when her crop feels FLAT, so whatever is in there is obviously the mass and not food. You can really get in there and move your fingers around fairly deeply. There's a good chance that you'll be able to easily feel if there is a large stone or mass still in there. When my hen had an impacted crop, I was able to feel a mass of the small grit that she had eaten too much of, it had all settled to the bottom of her crop and I could feel the grit and move them around. Her crop felt like a beanbag, and I could physically separate and feel the grit moving around.

Since her crop seems to go back to normal and then swell up again, it is likely that a large object is blocking the crop, but still slowly allowing food to pass. Deeply palpate her crop, it won't harm her at all. Get under the feathers and have at her. If you feel ANYTHING solid when her crop should be empty, then that is what is blocking it, and she may need surgery to remove it, as it hasn't broken up and passed with oil and massage. You can try and see if you can gently break it up yourself with your fingers. See how solid it is.

You mentioned that you have hay in the coop, that could be what she ate to cause the impacted crop. Hay would be difficult to pass, and become quite a solid mass. Sometimes hay or long grass will wrap around a stone and become impossible to pass.

If you palpate and feel absolutely nothing, then its a possibility that her crop is malfunctioning, I believe there is a name for it, I can't recall it at the moment.

I feel for you and your girl, I know how stressful crop problems are. I hope that she gets better soon.

 

[4hooves&featheredfriends]

I believe that they call the slowing or stopping of the function of the crop is crop stasis. I believe there can be a deformity of the crop, as in a septum, a structure of tissue that divides the crop or a malfunctioning crop as in impaired movement of the contents.

Are you thinking of something else-another term?

 

[tulie13]

4hooves&featheredfriends :

I believe that they call the slowing or stopping of the function of the crop is crop stasis. I believe there can be a deformity of the crop, as in a septum, a structure of tissue that divides the crop or a malfunctioning crop as in impaired movement of the contents.

Are you thinking of something else-another term?

That may be what I've come across, but wouldn't that show up pretty fast? Not after the chick is 7 weeks old? She seemed "fine" until a couple of weeks ago, one of my smaller ones, but not in an outstanding way.

Her crop is "blown up" again this morning, and she is burping, won't eat at all. I can't feel a thing in there. Every time I think I do, I think, "nope that's the feather on the other side".

And she's so skinny, it's like massaging a water balloon on a skeleton. Except she burps, so it's more like a regular balloon, not a water balloon.

I'm about to try surgery just so I can DO something that might help. If there's nothing physically there blocking, then maybe I can get out some "gunk" or something. I'm at a loss, and this chicken keeps doing one-eighties from day to day, from "about to die" to "looking perkier". If she doesn't eat soon, she will be too weak to turn around again.