Losing my flock, help!

[peepshow2310]

I wanted to put this out there in case anyone would have suggestions, ideas, etc.

We lost our original flock of 8 that we got as baby chicks back in Feb when they were around 13-16 weeks of age apparently due to Marek's Disease. I thought buying local was better and the local farmer assured me they didn't need the Marek's vaccinations and that he's never had any problems. At any rate, I lost them all and it was devastating.

We started over with chicks from a local feed store that DID receive the Marek's vaccination. However, I have now lost 2 chickens (all around the same age of 13-16 weeks like the rest.) I know they can potentially still get the disease, however I think it should be rare. The two I have just lost didn't have exactly the same "classic" symptoms of Marek's (wing and/or leg(s) paralysis) but rather just withdrawn and some slow paralysis symptoms. I only had 8, now 6, we keep the (large) area clean adding straw weekly (we are using the deep liter method), have a 5 gallon plastic waterer that I spike with apple cider vinegar and change about every 5-6 days and refill their food when empty (about every 6 days.) Is there something I am missing? The roost on top of the coop at night due to the summer with the inside of the coup probably being too warm for them.

Please if anyone has any suggestions please share them. We moved into this house and neighborhood less than a year ago and I am beginning to wonder was the area where the chickens reside contaminated with something? I don't know but this is so sad to watch. I feel my chickens are treated better than most American children and for the life of me can't figure out what could be wrong.

Thanks fellow peeps!

 

[Kikiriki]

It does seem strange to have so many problems and I would wonder, too, if there was something off about where they are living. What is the coop made of? For example, pallets are used under chemical barrels and they can be contaminated. Your soil might have been treated with something very harsh for termites or other bugs and those toxins can persist.

And of course microbes can persist, as well. Did you sterilize before bringing in a new flock? I would not do deep liter since you had a problem, and I would buy a steamer to sterilize every inch of their coop, equipment, and the ground.

Also, during this heat and humidity the feed can go bad...mold can grow quicly in the feed and has a real health impact. Try a bit of baking soda in their water instead of ACV. Also, baking soda can inhibit mold growth in feed: the study I read used a weak solution spray on grain but this would be hard to do with their feed: maybe just put feed and a bit of baking soda in a bag and shake it up real well? I would only put out feed that they will eat in a single day or two.

 

[Kikiriki]

Mold (mycotoxins) toxins and fowl:


http://broilerkita.blogspot.com/2009/10/mycotoxins.html
Best info

http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/publications/field_manual/chapter_37.pdf
Good, but more about wildlife and aquatic fowl

http://en.engormix.com/MA-poultry-i...immunosuppression-in-poultry-t1752/165-p0.htm
(see mycotoxins section under the table)

Notably, the toxins even affect how well vaccinations work because they suppress the immune system...

 

[FlyHigher]

Besides MD, paralysis and then death can be caused by lots of disease such as Newcastle, .Botulism, Epidemic tremors and aflatoxin poisoning, ect.So someone here who wants to help you will need more symptoms to get a diagnosis.Maybe you can try make a detailed list of the symptoms.
It is clear that you've already done a lot to your chickens, best wishes to your birds!

 

[Lobzi]

I wish I had some advice but honestly I dont. It doesnt make sense if your second flock of babies are dying of Mareks even after vaccination. Have you actually had any of them necropsied to make sure it is Mareks and not something else?

 

[leadwolf1]

It is not surprising to me that you would lose vaccinated chicks to Marek's. I have been battling this disease for a year and have lost 40+ birds including vaccinated ones. The most recent were 5 out of 9 vaccinated pullets that I purchased this Spring. I even had them in isolation for 14 weeks. I'm still losing them.

One thing that I noticed right off is the deep litter method you are using. With a disease like Marek's, you can not use the DL method. All bedding must be cleaned out regularly and the entire area disinfected with bleach, oxine or both. Marek's is shed in dander and by keeping old litter around, you are allowing a build up of virus.

My suggestions for you would be to get rid of the old litter, disinfect and start fresh. Do not keep any symptomatic birds in with those not showing signs of illness. Probably the most important, have a necropsy done to get a diagnosis so that you will know what you are dealing with.

I'm sorry that you are having problems...I truly can understand the pain you are going through.

 

[peepshow2310]

Wow, thanks guys. I LOVE this website.

I will certainly get rid of the deep litter and start fresh. Could someone explain how I should go about sterilizing the area? Once the all straw is removed, do I spray bleach to the area with a sprayer like the ones that are used to spray livestock for flies? The coop is wood that appears to be pine that we ordered on line and assembled ourselves. It was inexpensive so I would imagine it's pine (looks nice, not like plywood.) Also, the chickens are never in the coop because it's summer here and it's hot. I know many of you mentioned mold and moisture but we are in Denver and it's very dry (we wish we had some humidity at times!) The feed is always very dry, as well as all the straw in the area.

The first set of chickens had all the classic signs of MD, however the last two (of new vaccinated flock) have just been withdrawn, laying, not getting up very much. The one we had to euthanize yesterday appeared as if her she could not extend her neck up, it was down almost level with her body. The one before that was just withdrawn (for what I noticed) for only two days and she died on her own. I have noticed alot of feathers around lately.

"If" I have another pass, I think I am going to find a vet to do a necropsy. I need to know, it's keeping me up at night. Also, living in the city, it's hard when neighbors ask. I see their "fear" that it something is contagious. Silly, I know, but......

Thanks you guys....I am so happy I have found you all!

 

[leadwolf1]

You can only do so much to sanitize. I usually use a bucket of hot soapy water and thoroughly clean everything from top to bottom and then, I spray everything down with Oxine. If you don't have Oxine, you can use your sprayer...just don't let the chickens back in until all the fumes are gone and the coop is thoroughly dry.

Marek's manifests itself in numerous ways. If you have one with classic symptoms, I would bet that all that you lost would show Marek's on exam. I had one silkie that was walking around, eating and doing chicken things..an hour later, he died in my arms. I had him necropsied...report showed that he was full of tumors. Lymphosarcoma, from Marek's, killed him. It is one disease that never ceases to amaze me with the number of ways that it presents itself and no matter how it does it, it is always fatal.

 

[Lobzi]

Youre welcome

I agree, these chicken owner forums are so valuable.

Do let us know what you find out based on the necropsy.

 

[Kikiriki]

Important when sterilizing using a liquid is to keep the surface wet for 15 minutes minimum to allow disinfection. Good luck...