Lots of symptoms. What is the consensus of what we are dealing with?

[lavenderhengal]

When I only had hens, I used the Kalmbach layer feed. (I switched to whole flock with supplemental oyster shell once I got a rooster). My girls did really well (and continue to do really well) with that system.

I don't know if they need their feed to be high calcium, per se. Just that they have oyster shell as a supplement and you follow best treat practices (like giving treats at the end of the day, not letting non-feed foods be more than 10% of their diet, etc).

It sounds like your girls have been doing pretty great health-wise, so I don't think you need much of an overhaul.

Thank you. I feed them the Kalmbach Feeds All Natural Henhouse Reserve 17% Protein Layer feed and I also I feed them Dumor Organic layer feed pellets also. Which have calcium in the feed. They have access to both these feeds all day. (They have free-choice oyster shells 24/7 in two locations.)

But these two feeds are in their run and coop 24/7, and the hens are out in the garden all day eating bugs and such. Though they return to the coop during the day to lay their eggs at will, they do not linger in there eating. I am not sure how much of these two feeds they eat each day. In winter they are not out in the garden but are in the covered run when it is snowy, so they are probably eating these two feeds more then.

But I have been giving them large amounts of kale which they love. Also 4 scrambled eggs in late afternoon and meal worms at bedtime.

It sounds as if it is suggested here that I stop with the scrambled eggs and kale and meal worms.

When people see my hens they are amazed by how beautiful and big and healthy they are. I have always believed I have been doing the right thing by them by providing a healthy diet with greens, extra proteins, and meal worms. But maybe I have overdone the meal worms. I will certainly be more attentive to calcium needs.

I wonder how people who have free ranging hens as I do in my garden, make sure the hens are also eating the balanced feeds in their feeders which are usually located near or in the coop. How do people do that? Is there a method of chicken keeping I am missing that ensures the chickens get a certain amount of the actual feeds into their bodies each day?

 

[azygous]

While layer feed can be very beneficial, be aware that adding too much calcium to a hen's diet can be hard on her kidneys long term, causing stones to develop. As long as you have only laying hens, no old "retired" hens, baby chicks or roosters, and brand commercial layer feed will be adequate.

This is why we specify that calcium citrate supplement should only be given for no more than a couple weeks.

 

[lavenderhengal]

While layer feed can be very beneficial, be aware that adding too much calcium to a hen's diet can be hard on her kidneys long term, causing stones to develop. As long as you have only laying hens, no old "retired" hens, baby chicks or roosters, and brand commercial layer feed will be adequate.

This is why we specify that calcium citrate supplement should only be given for no more than a couple weeks.

Thank you. Much appreciated. I would also like to provide an update. It is 8:33 PM.

Once I brought her in from outside this afternoon, I attempted to give her some soft food, such as scrambled egg, yogurt, coconut oil. She refused everything but a bit of yogurt. She is in my bathroom which she likes because of the cool tile floor. Just now, I walked by and saw her drinking the water with the ACV in it. I felt really good about that. Then I went outside for a moment and when I came back in, there was a large water puddle next to her, not poop, but clear water and about 5 or 6 sunflower seeds without a shell from the bird feeder. I believe she had thrown up all the water she had just drunk. I have read that chickens cannot throw up. So I am not sure how she lost all that water she had just drunk two minutes earlier without throwing it up.

On a side note: do you think the calcium pill has blocked her up completely due to her impacted crop so that she cannot even keep water down now?

Then she pooped nearby while I stood there and it was quite green, what I might call bright green poop with a bit of white. Somewhat oily looking, but not like a shooting out of diarrhea or anything, more a wet pile.

Now she is standing there with her eyes closed. This all feels very bad actually. My joy at her eagerness for the coconut oil this morning and the water this morning gave me hope. But now it feels as if she is very tired and not doing well. She is standing up though. But perhaps some infection has gone systemic?

I do not have any antibiotics as was suggested today in this forum that she may need. There are no bird vets nor any vets who will treat a chicken anywhere around here, though I live in a rural area.

Where does someone get antibiotics without a prescription? And is it Amoxicillin I should try to get? But it would have to be delivered, if I knew where to order it from and that takes time we may not have. Can I order it from Amazon or Chewy, perhaps with one or two day shipping? If I was able to do that, what dosage would I give her? Is it a pill?

As you can see, I am very concerned.

 

[RedHillChicken]

Hi there. I just posted this question under someone else's post re Amoxicilin without realizing it, so I think perhaps I should start fresh here to ask this question.

Hoping I can get some ideas from this amazing group. I've never had a sick hen in all my 5 years of chicken keeping. The six girls live a luxurious lifestyle, I guess. But now one of them has mixed symptoms. Can someone here piece together what is going on and suggest treatment?

Chippy is 3 years old. Tough, savvy, independent, lovely Speckled Sussex. Free-range outside in my yard with manicured lawn all day. Lots of fresh kale torn into tiny pieces, meal worms, constant access to Kalmbach feed and organic pellets, some cracked corn, organic yogurt, scrambled eggs: not all at once, but this is their diet most days. They are well-fed and have a good life. 10 x 10 super clean coop with shavings cleaned every day, six friendly hens, no stress. Safely locked inside at night. Covered run when it rains. Lots of fresh water dishes everywhere.

This week Chippy got uncharacteristically mopey and stood alone and sad, even isolating herself out in the rain. I brought her inside to observe and analyze her. Her crop felt gritty and full, about golf ball sized. I compared it to everyone else's crops and it was fuller and had a gritty feeling, as if there were little stones in it. No other symptoms. Perfect breathing. Pooping a bit loose. So, based on this, I treated her with coconut oil and massage for several days thinking she was impacted in her crop, plus frequent water. After a few days of this, she is feeling better and she ate the coconut oil herself and drank water with ACV happily this morning without my forcing it on her. So better than yesterday. Yay!
But last night she "laid" maybe two no-shell eggs and what looks like a lash egg, maybe. Lots of fluid all around. Luckily she is on a dog's wee wee pad in her nylon dog kennel and it captured all the mess.

So, my question is what is this group of symptoms? I have studied many posts on this site. I end up with tons of info but this constellation of symptoms makes me wonder what info I should be implementing. Her appetite is still reduced. I put her back outside to cheer her up with her girlfriends and she just drank some water and went to nap in the shrubs area. So her energy is low, but she also hasn't eaten much in three days because I was trying to empty her crop for three days.

How is the crop situation related to the shell-less eggs? Does she have a need for medicine such as an antibiotic? Or Corid? Or what would you all do in this situation? How is a shell-less egg related to impacted crop?

Many thanks for all your advice you might share.

You should post pics of her poop, constantly. It's a diagnosis tool. Does she have any bloating below her vent? Has the color or condition of her comb changed? Is she lethargic?

 

[lavenderhengal]

You should post pics of her poop, constantly. It's a diagnosis tool. Does she have any bloating below her vent? Has the color or condition of her comb changed? Is she lethargic?

Hi there:
No bloating near her vent. Comb is very healthy color and not showing any dehydration. I will take a photo of her poop next time. I agree that it is a remarkable diagnosis tool.

It ended up she had "laid" 6 empty shell-less eggs last night. No lash egg. She has been lethargic from this entire ordeal, yes. But she was happy to be outside with her friends most of the day today, though she just lay around. Her comb is normal and red.

Tonight she threw up a large quantity of water she had just drunk by herself. The large pool of clear water had a few shell-less sunflower seeds in it. I wonder if that was the gritty stuff I had felt in her crop. She also had a poop that was oily and mainly dark green with some lighter green and white.

After all that throwing up and pooping, she seemed to feel a bit better and maybe drank some more water and looked at the soft foods I had given her, then she went to bed. I have her inside my house in the bathroom in a large nylon dog kennel.

Earlier this afternoon I gave her a full calcium pill because that was the general consensus that she was calcium deficient and thus the shell-less eggs were happening. Hopefully the calcium will turn things around for her. I will give it to her every day for two weeks. But in the meantime I am starting to wonder if I need to treat her for sour crop because of the throwing up of her water. I will do that tomorrow morning if that is advisable.

So much going on. She seems better one minute and not so good the next. There is no bird vet near me anywhere so I don't know where to get antibiotics if they are needed. I am not sure how one knows if antibiotics are needed. Many thanks for any thoughts you might share.

 

[azygous]

It's premature to be talking about an antibiotic. The only reason why you would give her amoxy right now would be if she had signs of egg yolk breaking inside her. You would see yolk soiling her butt feathers. The reason to give an antibiotic is because yolk is a breeding medium for bacteria. But you will need a prescription from a vet to buy it in the US.

Besides boosting her blood calcium, we give the calcium citrate to stimulate contractions to push an egg out. As I mentioned, shell-less eggs are hard to pass, and they often get stuck. If an egg is stuck, she will have crop issues such as the regurgitation you saw.

You might see thin watery fluids dripping from her vent if an egg is stuck. This fluid is often acrid smelling. In itself, it's not a problem but it can dehydrate her so be sure she has water to drink at all times.

Your hen may also have an issue with ovulation, producing more than one yolk per cycle. The calcium citrate can regulate ovulation, getting her back to one yolk per cycle again.

And, no, the calcium tablet is not sitting in her crop blocking everything. Calcium dissolves quickly when it's exposed to the acid in her crop. The ACV has a dilute amount of hydrochloric acid in it, and it can help in this regard.