LSG that herds as well?

[centrarchid]

We have our flock free ranging on 3 acres. We do not have a fence. So far we've only lost one bird to a predator, but would like to get a LSG. We are also hoping the LSG will herd the chickens away from the property line and away from the porch. (The property owner is threatening to throw all the chickens in the pot if they don't stop pooping on her porch). Is there a dog known for guarding AND herding? Is it even practical to think a dog will keep birds out of a particular area?

I suggest dropping the notion of containing flock using a dog. Three acres is enough to support a dozen birds or so and their ranging habits can be greatly modified using vegetation you plant or allow to grow.


How many birds do you have? Are you willing to let some of the grassed areas grow up into hay quality forage? Would you be willing to make plantings that can provide cover? This will not be realized overnight which similar to situation with dog route being contemplated.

 

[Baymule]

We have our flock free ranging on 3 acres. We do not have a fence. So far we've only lost one bird to a predator, but would like to get a LSG. We are also hoping the LSG will herd the chickens away from the property line and away from the porch. (The property owner is threatening to throw all the chickens in the pot if they don't stop pooping on her porch). Is there a dog known for guarding AND herding? Is it even practical to think a dog will keep birds out of a particular area?

Put up a fence. Livestock Guard Dogs roam. I have a Great Pyrenees and if she is standing on it, it's hers. If she sees it, it's hers. LGDs must be in a good fence or they will wander. We have a 4' chain link fence that we raised another 3 feet. She hits the wire, barking and biting the wire when she sees people or other dogs. You don't need a LGD, you need a fence.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Quote:
That's typical curiosity, and any mutt from a pound can do that It STILL doesn't make the dog an LGD The term has a SPECIFIC MEANING.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Quote:
That just needed repeating

 

[centrarchid]

That's typical curiosity, and any mutt from a pound can do thatIt STILL doesn't make the dog an LGDThe term has a SPECIFIC MEANING.

Bear Foot,

Your description of what an LGD does is flawed in itself. True LGD's are not confined in little paddocks with their herd. The herd ranges over a much larger area to compensate for poor forage quality and quantity. The penned up on fertile ground with supplemental haying and graining is an American thing.

Take time to look into how sheep and goats are kept by parties making living from it where the dogs where developed. You will actually learn something and tone down some of your shortness. Breeders here in the States are not the best sources of info,

 

[zazouse]

That's a tricky one. The herding instinct is a modified hunting instinct. We have an Anatolian x Border Collie--who looks like a 100lb Border Collie with an Anatolian head. LOL He is doing great with the chickens but he really struggles.

I occasionally let my chicken flocks out and he watches them for a while and then decides to put them away and wants them away (i.e. he will not let them out). He actually does help me put away the ducks and geese at night. The chickens, not so much. LOL

Beautiful dog.. how old is he

 

[Kyonarai]

"No offense, but you seem kind of snobby about the whole 'dogs guarding animals' thing" Your St Bernard is guarding TERRITORY LGD's guard ANIMALS

Okay, that MIGHT be true. But functionally, on a small farm or backyard flock, what the heck is the difference? You're saying it's not worth the trouble to have a dog trained to guard who also won't mess with chickens. To me, it's very much worth the trouble, and my property IS fenced. If he is actively going to check on them, and responds to them being in distress(not out of "curiosity" as you say, he goes into full blown war mode ready to kill whatever has invaded his turf, then how is that any different? The ONLY difference I can see is that a LGD lives with their animals in open terrain.

Note, I'm not saying that my saint bernard is a LGD, I'm saying he is capable of doing the job that you keep saying his breed(or any others that aren't an 'official' LGD breed) can't do, which is guard a backyard flock of chickens, if not intentionally, then effectively, by both deterring and destroying predators of said birds.

He is capable of the following:
-Actively responding to any sound out of place
-Eradicating threats and or predators with extreme prejudice
-Being large enough to successfully take out said predators.
-Being friendly towards, and respectful of the chickens as part of his pack
-Respecting me as alpha and following any specific commands I give him
-Keeping human threats off of and away from my property by his sheer bulk and mannerisms(He will charge the fence, snarling, at ANYONE he doesn't know well)
-Being calm and gentle with our family, other pets, and well known friends, whom are free to come and go and do whatever they please and he won't even bat an eyelash.

It matters little what y0ou can TRAIN a dog to do .LGD's guard by INSTINCT, and a German Shepherd is NOT an LGD

Also, if it matters to you, I did NOT train Yoshi to do what he does. He is a naturally protective dog. He IS a well trained dog, in that he knows many tricks and commands, is house trained, and walks perfectly on a leash without pulling me, but I did not teach him any of his guarding behaviors. He does patrols and checks up on everyone in the family of his own volition. He's aggressive towards strangers because he wants to be, and I see no need to end such a desirable behavior, when you never know what sort of people could come knocking at your front gate.

So maybe he is just an anomoly, but you have to remember, all dogs and dog breeds had to start somewhere, that instinct had to come from somewhere, in order for it to be molded into the behaviors and instinct we know today. So please, don't discount another breed just because it's not some chosen and special "LGD" breed. They are all dogs, and they are all amazing creatures in their own right, and some of them can amaze you with just how out of character they can be for their breeds stereotype.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Quote:
How the breeds were developed mean very little in relation to here and now. Here the dogs NEED to be confined unless you can be absolutely certain they will not leave YOUR property. They also should NOT be "socialized": as you would a "pet" or they are no longer useful as true guardians I expect I already know more then 90% of the people here about LGD's since I've been raising them for 10 years. What you call "shortness" is simply me stating the facts, and the fact remains, not every MUTT is a true LGD, just because someone CALLS them one

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

" So please, don't discount another breed just because it's not some chosen and special "LGD" breed."

I never said your dog couldn't do some things.
What I SAID was it's NOT a LGD, and never will be
None of the behaviors you described have anything to do with "guarding LIVESTOCK", and are all territorial

Your dog is a PET.

 

[Ultra]

I've been raising them for 10 years.

" So please, don't discount another breed just because it's not some chosen and special "LGD" breed." I never said your dog couldn't do some things. What I SAID was it's NOT a LGD, and never will be None of the behaviors you described have anything to do with "guarding LIVESTOCK", and are all territorial Your dog is a PET.

You have raised LGD's for 10 years and STILL know nothing about dogs? Wow. You're doing it wrong.

Dogs have a pack mentality and, with proper training, will readily defend other animals it considers part of its pack. Have you NEVER seen a dog protective of it's master? Ever? Are you really saying a dog will not defend another animal unless it's an LGD breed? You cannot be serious.

German Shepherds don't guard children and masters because they are territorial, they do it because they are protective of their packmates. I can have neighbors over to my farm and my German won't attack unless someone becomes violent. I have seen her just sitting there and then jump up and bark because my son's friend chased a duck. My parent's little weiner dog was never bothered by my German until he chased a goose, then my dog intercepted. This is not territorial behavior, it's pack mentality, something MOST dogs can develop with almost any animal. It is the most instinctual behavior there is.

The advantage of LGD breeds is their ability to live with the livestock and be independent of human interaction. There is nothing proprietary to LGD breeds when it comes to simply guarding animals or people.

No, my German Shepherd cannot live with the flock 24/7 and do her job without leadership, discipline, and affection from her human pack leader, but that doesn't mean she can't do the most basic job of guarding her packmates. She does it just fine, thanks.