Major Mortality rate what could be wrong with my flock? HELP PLEASE

[rancher hicks]

Well, she's off to bed so I doubt she'll read any of your posts.

Clearly there is something going on or this is just a boondogle.

I suspect the poison if there is one is not entering through the water but something else. Could be in the feed but there has to be some other options examined. Could even be someone poisoning them.

I certainly wouldn't wait for test results before starting a blanket cover all anitbiotic. It's seems to me that the OP isn't all that concerned or would have tried this. For this to have gone on this long and not have done anything other than make phone calls is suspicious.

It seems to me it would be better to do something in addition to making phone calls. Something other than standing around and watch animals die.

I've lost interest.

 

[nuts4chickens]

Melissa, hope you are hanging in there. I am remaining hopeful that the vet may still be able to provide a diagnosis for you, however, in the event there is no diagnosis given, I think it may be time to look at some more drastic measures. I think you should take into account everything you are going through on a personal level, your financial circumstances, and the very serious illness your sister is facing right now. I am going to step very lightly, and try to be as sensitive to you as I possibly can, because I truly am sad, and heartbroken for everything you have faced, are facing now, and will face in due time. Sometimes, we may hear things we done want to hear, but the people who are brave enough to tell us sometimes, risk angering you, or hurting you, because they ultimately care about you, and want the best for you. Now, I am I going to tell you what I would do if I were in your very shoes. I think it is time to cull the entire flock. Every single one...even Peter Pan. IMO, it is too late for antibiotics. Not only that, but you dont know what you are treating, and it would be wrong for you to ever sell another chicken from this group, even if they somehow miraculously return to health, because you will have no idea what they had, or what they may be carriers of. Perhaps, in the beginning, if the group could have been separated and quarantined, you would have had better chances of controlling it... but this has gone on for too long and the chances of some of them not being exposed are very very small. If you dont have the financial means to arrive to a definite diagnosis...

....(and I understand completely, as most of us do)... then you need to cull them ALL. This is a very bad situation, Melissa. And you are dealing with a mountain of bigger things right now, as hard as it is... cull them and relieve this headache NOW. You will no longer have to worry about this, or try to find the means to feed them. Burn their litter. Disinfect everything, saturate the grounds with bleach, burn what you can. Burn the carcasses. Cleanse yourself of this situation. The birds are suffering, and this is the most humane thing you can do, since you cant afford to find the antecdote to this illness, or what it is. It is the most responsible and selfless thing you can do right now. Focus on your sister, and getting your life in order. This is what is most important right now. Next spring, hatch yourself a few eggs, and keep a manageable sized flock that you can afford to feed, vet, and maintain. I am not trying to be cruel, Melissa. Please know this. But it really is time to put this to an end once and for all... for your own well being, and for the future of your future chicken endeavors. Thinking of you, and surely hope you dont take offense to my opinion. Take care, dear.

 

[jessaw1981]

well first let me start by telling you that we all.care about you here and wish you the best of luck. I am going to take a shot in the dark and ask if they are on the same feed bag purchased when this all started or Mabey 2 got at the same time. ya know we have all kinds of recalls all the time for all kinds of products that have been contaminated for what ever reason. I am wondering if you got ahold of some tainted feed. it could he from the manufacturer or the feed store. some places are not run well and if so it could be slowley poisoning your flock. if that's the case antibiotic would not help or anything elts that's just what I would be thinking call the feed man. and ask if there us any reporting of something like this and well as the feed store. we had some family go to ts and but mash and feed to birds and they got sick the vet asked for food and he said it had mold in it a lot they bought 4 bags all the same thing. it was bad the vet said the type of mold you.could barley smell it. ( could have been black mold I guess ) but that's why I am saying this. good luck to you if I did not think that the.feed could do it then I would.cull all of them and help my sister get threw this gift time and when things settled down hatch some.chicks. after coming on here I will no longer buy if trade birds and bring into my place because a lot of people.don't take care.of animails as I would ( sorry about the spelling and .'s I do this all on my phone and its hard sometimes. we will be praying for you and your family. good luck honey keep your head up.

 

[MiniBeesKnees]

OK, so no one knows what this is, we only have some idea of what it isn't.
We only know what we ourselves would do about it...or we say what we would do.
No advice of what we would HAVE done is constructive.
It may be something as simple as the heat.
The chances of it being some illness that a course of anitbiotics will cure magically are very slim.
It could be something as complicated as an insect borne virus or parasite that is already firmly established in the environment and culling the rest of them will not solve the problem.
We really have to know what it is before we can say with certainty that the birds are suffering.

If it were me at some point...which may or may not have happened yet I would have tried to get the State involved then every department on a Federal level I could think of...the EPA, the FDA...whoever handles wildlife under the concept that this may cross to wild birds...and I probably would have picked up the phone first but I have much better luck with emails. I'm one of those folks who email the White House. You never know who may find interest, and proceed to do something. Any threat to big industry's profits or some 'rumor' that the meat or eggs may be tainted...any publicity that will affect the stock price of some big chicken/ag group will be paid attention to.

On this board all we can do is respond...and guess. Some have more educated guesses than others do. It is not like they all died at once. So they died a few here, and a few there. We all have to decide for ourselves when enough have died we need to cull them all. Depending on what is causing it.

Chances are if 'someone' were poisoning them then apparently they have to sneak in time after time and poison a few every once in awhile. First of all if a neighbor is that threatening to anyone...the chances are that one would be aware of it. Around here...the dogs are gonna bark, and that person sneaking around private property is taking a huge risk of getting shot. Someone has to hate you pretty much to risk getting shot to poison your chickens over and over...the OP would probably know if someone hated her that much. What would poison a chicken anyway? It would have to taste good for them to eat it all or there would be evidence of leftovers.

It could be the weather...
the food
the treats
in the water...some algae is poisonous.
the dirt...could it be Radon?
in the air
in the bedding
brought in by someone
some noxious weed or growth...Maybe they found bad mushrooms that are killing them.
some mold
some virus
....or some insect. Are they being stung by bees?

How do we know all her poultry has been 'exposed'....exposed to what?

With the hundreds...thousands...of folks on this board it seems to me that someone else would have had, or is having similar issues.

Chances are if it were the bedding, the food, the water (as the aquifer or water table), in the air, or the weather then whoever covers the agricultural 'news' may have heard of other instances. If it is just Melissa, and just her poultry that rules out a lot of things. But culling them all is not guaranteed to fix everything and neither is burning everything, or G*d forbid pouring bleach on acres and acres. That is a waste of time, very expensive to do, will essentially kill your land for most other purposes for a long time, kill everything growing on that land...and pollute the groundwater. And who knows if it would even work. If no one knows what is causing it, how do we know bleach will kill it. She has walked in and out of her house. What...burn that down too?

This is only one of Melissa's problems and I'm quite sure that she has taken her other issues into account. Once more...she isn't just talking, she is doing. In this economy she went out and got a job. She has plans to be with her sister.

The first step to a solution to anything...any issue, any problem...is to determine and define the problem. She is still trying to do that. If the contagion has not spread to her neighbors then any scorched earth suggestions are a little draconian at this point. No one who does not know what is happening can say it has gone on too long.

 

[nuts4chickens]

Again, no offense is intended here AT ALL. Please know this. Melissa- basically this sums it up, correct? You began losing chickens the 2nd week of June according to your first post. You had 130 chickens, and have lost 80ish? at last count several posts back. Your neighbors have also lost chickens. Since then several different ideas have been presented. Coccidiosis a dozen times, END (which you are testing for along with 2 other diseases), botulism, poison, tainted water, etc. Really- your only options are: 1. Get a full necropsy to determine cause and treat accordingly. 2. Get a water sample 3. Get a feed sample. 4. Get a soil sample. 5. Cull, if you are unable to do any of the above. Whatever it is, it is very serious. If you are unable to get to the true root of it, treating with antibiotics may or may not work, but you don't know what they may be carriers of, which may indirectly affect other chicken owners who may buy your birds, or be infected by wild birds that come in contact with your birds in neighboring plots. I commend your persistence in getting the USDA involved, and your reaching out for help. But I don't think there are any other options at this point. You have tons of avenues to pursue, it is really up to your financial means to pursue them. Wether it be to pay for a necropsy and treat accordingly, or pay for soil, feed, water samples if you are unable to get someone to do it for free. Since it sounds like your funds are limited (believe me I UNDERSTAND) and you are unable to do anything other than what you have already done, I still think you should cull all of them, if you can't do anything else. I just want to say one more time, I am not trying to offend anyone, or add to your burden, with my words. I just think these things need to be said. Focus on your sister, and getting to a better peace right now, and end this problem once and for all wether it be to cull or take action. It has to be one or the other.

 

[CityChicker]

I tend to agree with nutsforchickens at this point. Hindsight is 20/20. There are major issues with your husbandry practices. That is in large part what has exacerbated your problem and made it difficult to control and get to the bottom of. My sincere hope is that you learn from this and you get this solved so that you can focus on other areas of your life. It is obvious that you are not in a position to do what I would do if I had gotten myself into the situation you have gotten yourself into. I would probably make the decision to cull the entire flock and then decide down the road when I had the means to properly care for my birds whether or not to buy some again. There is not much else you can do. Culling is most likely the most compassionate route, especially if you do not have even the means to separate or cage the birds. There are so many really simple things that could have been done (or still could be) to narrow down the problem (again, going back to husbandry practices), but it just doesn't seem likely that you will be able to do it with everything that is on your plate.

If you cannot get additional veterinary assistance from the state, working with a private practice vet is likely going to be a small fortune. You can't very well sell them or give them away and pass your problem on to someone else either. I would also not be very inclined to take the "shotgun" approach to medicating either. You don't want to put a band-aid on the problem only to have it pop up again down the road. Again, I wish you the best. I don't think anyone here wishes to offend you. It just seems apparent that this situation is out of control and given some of what is going on, it does not seem likely you will able to get it under control yourself. Life happens, unfortunately. Almost all of us have been through tough times at one point or another and I think everyone here really feels for you. I know I do. Maybe culling the birds and starting with a fresh clean slate down the road is the best way to go.

 

[arch_cpj]

sounds like it may well be west nile virus or a encepylitis variant crosses species with ease and can be spread in an area quickly by mosquitos I doubt its a poisoning I know with say jimpsom weed a cow eats in the morn and by evening is flat out dead these birds are getting what seems like flue like symptoms and dieing quickly may also be a form of avian flu... my hunch is its airborns and viral... cocidiosis usually results in obvious diarrehha and takes a few days to kill and longer in mammals... I tend to think culling the flock and no chickens for a year or two to clear out the place... Id ask the state vet if they ran cultures if not if you have the cash 200 or so bucks may be the best bet to pay a local vet to look into it if its a viris odds are you have to cull anyway...

 

[drumstick diva]

My two cents worth, if it were bad water, or feed, it would seem to me the chickens, would have died en masse, instead of a few here, then days later more. Must either be something contagious or someone is poisoning them, and not putting out enough to kill them all.

 

[bossynbella]

Well first of all my sister may only have 6-8 weeks left. She doesn't seem to want to fight it has basically just given up. Everything I have read about Pancreatic cancer in the end stage only furthers my worry, it is not a pleasent disease, it will be very very painfull for my sister, they may have to give her nerve blockers. My dreams are more like nightmares of her coming here only she looks like a skeleton and I just cry and cry until I wake myself up, then I don't even want to go back to sleep. I am exhausted but dread going to bed at night.

Right now my plan as far as the chickens go is this. Cull all the chickens within the next few weeks. I am not going to kill the ducks, the guineas or the peacock at this point. We are deciding about keeping a few of the cochins as they seem completely fine and we have only lost two of 10 of them from the beginning on. I just can't kill the animals that seem perfectly healthy. Also yesterday one of our guineas came back from her nest across the road with 18 little baby keets, I won't kill them when there is no evidence any of the guineas have or ever had it.
We buy 2-3 bags of feed a week. We feed a mix of cracked corn from our local mill and Layer feed from Thiesens. The only other person who has lost chickens is over 30 miles away from me and they where being fed Chick feed. But three came from my house, that is how she got it there. She has one Rooster that lived and is absolutely fine. The rest died 3 weeks ago, but this guy is just fine. To me this means that not every chicken will die from this. Our chickens waterers are filled with the same water that us and the rabbits, dogs, and horse drink, and all of us are fine. My father in law (who hasn't lost any chickens) feeds the same feed, in fact we pick it all up at one time and then drop his off on the weekend. We buy the feed every week, two weeks worth at one time max.
I think this may just be something we never get to the bottom of. I will try to find a local chicken farm and try to contact them, at this point I am not sure there is a point. 75% of the chickens left are my friends. This inhibits me from simply culling them, yet I can't very well drop them off at her house not knowing what is going on either. So I have to get with her and decide what she wants to do with hers. She pays for there feed.
Well its been a long week though tomorrow is Tuesday it is my Friday. I get Wednesday and Thursday off. First days off in 6 days, and I have so much family stuff to deal with I don't know that I will be on much. I will try to keep you all updated as much as possible, on any new findings or decisions.

 

[dottysfarm]

I have been reading this thread since the first few posts. I feel compelled to comment now. Melissa, I know you said that you would not be online for a few days. I hope you get to read this. I cannot come close to knowing how you feel right now. I can imagine burnt out, frustrated, angry, anxious, and maybe even scared; especially over your sister. I cannot imagine the hurt and pain you are going through. Even though I cannot imagine how you feel, I want to tell you about the Hope that I have found in Christ. He has become the very center of my life. He has brought me hope in this difficult and fallen world. My life has not been easy either. He has not taken away all pain but has become a way to get through the pain. I think about what He went through for me, a lost sinner, incapable of saving myself; and I become greatful to Him for dying on that cross for me. In those moments, whatever I am going through doesn't seem to matter anymore. I am simply greatful. I know that someday I will be with Him in a place where there will be no more tears, pain, frustration; no more people to hurt me, no more situations to rip my heart out, no more circumstances over which I cannot sleep at night. He has begun to give me a sense of joy, not happiness, it is different. He has given me joy, which is an understanding that no matter what happens, no matter how painful; He has saved me and He is there with me and will take care of me. It brings so much peace to me to think that He cares about every thing that happens in my life; from my animals to the people I love. I hope that you know Him and can rely on Him in this very difficult time. If you spend time asking Him to show Himself, He will be faithful to do so. If you spend time to listen for an answer, you will hear Him. If you do not know Him yet, I would encourage you to please consider it. He will not make all the pain go away, but you will learn to deal with the pain based on the assurance that He gives. He has put you into the perfect situation to have to acknowledge Him. As difficult as this is for me to say to you, there is nothing you can do at this point to change your situation. But He wants to hear from you and take care of you. I hope that you will consider these words, they are spoken in love.