Making your own Cross

[Cedarknob]

Quote: Actually when he lost the egg production was when he used the Cornish crossed hens as the female side under a RIR X Wyandotte roo. The Cornish body returned but so did the Cornish's poor egg laying ability. I strongly suspect that regardless of which breed he had used on the top or bottom, his attention to the egg production of those that ended up with the body type of the bird he had envisioned, followed by heavy culling of the inferior birds, was the key to his success. I may be wrong in my preference of using the larger breed as a male line, but nature has seen to it that males are bigger than females within chicken breeds, and if possible I want to feed less of the bigger breed needed for the fewer males and more of the smaller female line. LOL In time Brother Wilfrid happened upon one big hen that was also a great layer, but he eventually set the breed's standard weight considerably lower than hers. He was, in my opinion, a great breeder and his breed a very good one. Early pictures of his Chanteclers show a "Cornishy" body with much softer plumage and close fitting cushion combs that made them more winter hardy. I think I would be had pressed today just to find and continue to breed good physical representations of the breed, let alone a line of them that continue their famed egg production. If I was a good breeder, I would go to work trying to increase egg production while keeping my Cornish to their standard appearance, but I have trouble just trying to breed them to look like the SOP. LOL

 

[galanie]

LOL. That is what most cornish breeders say, that it's difficult to improve them in appearance or even keep them looking close to SOP even w/out worrying about egg production.

 

[kizanne]

First I want to thank you for your responses they have been great and I love the knowledge you are laying on me.

The original question wouldn't have been long term. I have some cornish (dark) in the grow out pen and hopefully there will be a nice large male to become my stud. However, that will take 6 months and at the time I had the option of getting a Delaware Rooster that was already of age. I currently have 14 layers of various breeds and mixes and 3 orphington boys (13 weeks).

Long term I'm going to explore some crosses for producing my own small batch meaties. I know I won't ever get to the cornish cross (nor do I want to) but I'm hoping for a decent size bird (4 pounds dressed) by 13-20 weeks and of course 13 would be better than 20 but I'd like it before they start crowing too much or fighting. My limited experience has been that until about 18-20 weeks they may crow but it isn't that loud, or long and have not much trouble with the fighting.

Currently way to young to breed but in my grow pen are some black broilers (one that is really bucking for the job of stud), Red broilers (doesn't appear to be an canidates there they'll all be dinner but I have a girl so maybe a girl red broiler to go with my boy black broiler and just see what hatches). Dark Cornish but hatchery stock, dominics (more for the girl side), australorp for the girl side.

In the brooder, I have some Delawares (girl side but a bigger boy might get a shot at the title), Blue lace Wyandottes (boy and / or girl side plan to keep 3-4 girls and a roo for breeding pure blue lace red wyandottes), a few production reds cause they were free, my own barnyard mix with my maran roo though it looks like dad might have been the barnvelder (bonus as he was really tasty when we ate him).

I plan to have a few here and a few there that I can mix and match coops and roos to try out the mixes. I want a meaty as we all do but I have other requirements. I live in the city and would like a quiet roo, not silent I know that won't happen but quiet as possible (so hatching tons until I find the one). I don't like ameracauna cause I find them to be noisy and flighty (not that they were in contention) but my long term meaties need to be birds I kinda like having around. I figure I'm going to be keeping them year round in small batches so other than maybe getting too attached I'd like to like them. The barnvelder I had grew to a nice size in a nice amount of time but that bird was extremely skittish (now I only had the one so maybe it was just him). I want them to walk up and down ramps on their own, be easy to handle, grow well, be tasty while homemade meat is great tasting I find I prefer the DP's to the CX's and there is even difference among the DP's. If I'm going through all this trouble might as well get the best taste I can that I like for the money cause my way isn't cheap. Though once I figure it out and I'm only trying to feed say 10 meaties at a time then kitchen scraps, bug I grow, ranging, garden spoils and such will cut down some on the feed. The stud need to be nice to the girls.

I figure if I just keep hatching eventually I'll find the combination roo/girls that I like the parents and the babies and make me great meat. It won't be as cost effective as CX's but there won't be heart failures, I can process whenever I feel like it and it will be tastier (to me I know some prefer the CX) and I love hatching chicks.

So my already planned tries are as follows: Male equals + Female equals ^
Dark Cornish = DC Delaware = D
Australorp =A Blue Laced Red Wyandotte = BL
Black Copper Maran = M Dominic = D
Orphington = O Black Broiler = BB
Red Broiler = RB Barnvelder = V

DC + / D ^
DC + / A ^
DC + / M ^
DC + / my barred rock mix girls
DC + / D ^
DC + / BL^
BB + / RB ^
BB+ / D^
O+ / my barred rock mix
O+ / M^
M+ / D^
M+ / A^
M+ / BL^
BL+ / BL ^
BL + / D^
BL + / A^
BL + / my barred rock mix girls
V+/D note I don't have any Barnvelders at this time, I'd have to get one first as I killed the only roo.

Those are my intended crosses. I"m sure I'll get others just cause I only have some many pens. The Orphingtons and the Black Broiler will only keep a roo if they reach a good size, behave and if any of the experiment crosses go well. If not they'll be freezer food. I intend to keep a Dark Cornish, Maran, Blue Lace. But if I'm not seeing what I want then I'll get a Barnvelder again as he grew well and tasted good so maybe if I hatch some more I can find a friendly one who is large and tasty.

For girls I intend to keep a few ameracaunas and EE's (I sell eggs and blue and green liven up a pack). when I hatch for meaties I know don't grab the blue and green (LOL blue and green become warning signs). I'll have a few Blue Lace Red Wyandottes, Marans, Delawares and Australorps. The Blue lace and marans will be able to sell pure hatching eggs when not experimenting (and after the wait period).

It's a zoo but I look at it as fun!! Hey if I find a combo I like I'll sell city friendly meaties to a few locals here.

At some point I might give the rainbow ranger a try too, though I think they are the same as red broilers. I might also be so pleased with the black and red broilers that I just grow them as I found a local hatcher that I can buy small batches from. One of my desires is to only raise about 10 at a time so if I want to order meaties I have to find someone to split the order.

Any positive input is really appreciated. Telling me to just raise CX's would not be.

 

[kizanne]

Oh and as a side note. I don't care about color or feathering as I skin. I don't pluck so I don't care how hard to pluck is, if they have pin feathers or the color of the skin, feet or what have you.

 

[kizanne]

And if any of the hybrid experts want to weigh in. I'd love to know if any of my planned combinations would give me a sex link chick.

 

[Cedarknob]

There are many pages of reading and pictures of crosses made by people trying to breed their own on this thread:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/316007/red-laced-cornish-x-and-project-talk-pics-p-8

I have no experience with or knowledge about the red broilers or black broilers, but if they suit as you as meat birds, those are the only ones I would think might come close to meeting your expectations, especially if you are using hatchery sourced chickens, which almost always are smaller sized and less meaty than the breeds that they are sold as.

I used to be attracted to the idea of a sex-link cross also, but decided that unless I want to cull males on day one, like the hatcheries do [except for the very small percentage they can sell at discount prices], that there is really no advantage in breeding them. By the time any are old enough to process, they are plenty old enough sex, even the 7 week wonder commercial meaties sold as Cornish Rock.

 

[kizanne]

Yea I've looked at many of the pages on that thread. I don't remember where I stopped but it had kinda degenerated into a small group of people talking about some other ideas.

I will try to get back there can push on as I'm sure they got back on topic a couple or so pages later.

One thing is I'm not necessarily trying to do a big breast cornish cross type bird as I like the taste of DP X100 better. So my cross may not be quite like theirs, but their knowledge is valuable I agree. I have some cornish to experiment with but if I make a cross that taste like the CX then I'll move on as I loved my maran and barnvelder taste better. Not all my birds are hatchery birds. The marans, Delawares, Blue laced red Wyandotte, barnyard mixes are not. The australorps are local, the guy hatches and sells them but his parent stock maybe hatchery don't know. The cornish, broilers, doms, barred rocks are hatchery. We'll see just for size I really have one Black Broiler who is growing fairly well but only time will tell if that is because he was slightly older than is brothers or if he just has a few large genes in there. But he is big and very heathly looking, not showing any meanness, cleanly; all the traits I like.

I wouldn't mind the sex link trait just because then in the beginning I'd know who the girls are. I wouldn't be bias against boys since they will grow faster, but depending on what I end up crossing and what they end up being like, there maybe a market to sell pullets as egg layers. Such as maran pullets are really popular due to the color egg they lay. Many of the small backyard people around here don't care if they have to feed extra feed or what have you because they are pets. But they do care about egg color and bird friendliness which the color thing is how come so many EE's are floating around these parts cause I don't find them the most pleasant birds compared to my barred rock barnyard mix or my speckled sussex. So if I had friendly girls who laid dark brown eggs I might could just well the pullets at hatch and only raise the boys for meat.

I don't want to be in the chicken business but like my egg selling (local for eating) if they pay for the feed or make my stuff free why not. My eggs make all my eggs free which means my layers pay for themselves pretty much. If I could get the pullets to pay for the feed for the roosters that would be awesome.

 

[galanie]

I'd bet a good Delaware line alone would do what you want. But I do wish you luck and hope you hit on something that you like. I'm pretty much not interested in color either to a point. Of course I'd like to have the best quality birds I can have but if some pop up with oddball coloring, I really don't care.

 

[kizanne]

Yes my readings have said that prior to CX's the standard broiler was cornish x delaware so I thought I'd give it a try. I don't need the wheel to be new just so long as it works. But I have different desires than the broiler houses to it may or may not fit all my desires. My Dels are only 2 days old so it will be 24 weeks before I can try to hatch those. My first attempt will be orphington x barnyard just because my orphington roosters are 13 weeks old so.... they are currently my oldest roosters.

My maran rooster was too loud he would start at 5:30 in the morning and give no peace until about 10. That was just a bit much and I don't want to tick the neighbors off too much, so he became dinner. He was tasty.

I have 3 Orphington roosters probably only one will get to stay. 2 are cukoo and 1 black.

 

[galanie]

The Orp roos I've eaten were the tastiest I've ever had in my life. They have lots of leg meat and I do like dark meat. Yum.