Malay Chat Thread

[MysteryChicken]

A reason you’re probably not finding much about their history is that you’re dealing with an ancient family of birds whose original origins probably date back to the B.C. era.

I think its helpful to think of all of the oriental gamefowl as being variants of the same overall kind of bird. An aseel is a Malay is a Ganoi and so-on.

I’ll use an analogy with dogs; an English bulldog is an American bulldog is a bull mastiff is is a pit-bull terrier. Now of course those all are technically separate breeds. But they all come from the same overall bulldog source genetics and many of them have been outcrossed to other non-bulldog breeds and then crossed back to each other. Often the existent more healthy and athletic varieties have been recently outcrossed to make a dog that’s more like what the original bulldogs were 200 years ago.

There was probably a time (a very long time ago) when the various oriental gamefowl breeds were of more singular strains than what they became later. Trade in Asia was not necessarily as isolated in the ancient world as it became in modern times. There have been many empires in Asia that transcended modern political and ethnic boundaries. What a Malay was by 1900 AD may not have been what a Malay was in 1600 AD.

I would suggest thinking more about what you want your birds to be instead of what an artificial set of standards thinks they ought to be, then mine the genetics of similarly built and natured oriental gamefowl to freshen up what you have, then cull towards the traits you want.

Makes sense.

Was hoping to find a study, or something similar to what you described.

Had the same thought of analogy as you, for awhile about the Oriental Games actually.

 

[AGeese]

A reason you’re probably not finding much about their history is that you’re dealing with an ancient family of birds whose original origins probably date back to the B.C. era.

I think its helpful to think of all of the oriental gamefowl as being variants of the same overall kind of bird. An aseel is a Malay is a Ganoi and so-on.

I’ll use an analogy with dogs; an English bulldog is an American bulldog is a bull mastiff is is a pit-bull terrier. Now of course those all are technically separate breeds. But they all come from the same overall bulldog source genetics and many of them have been outcrossed to other non-bulldog breeds and then crossed back to each other. Often the existent more healthy and athletic varieties have been recently outcrossed to make a dog that’s more like what the original bulldogs were 200 years ago.

There was probably a time (a very long time ago) when the various oriental gamefowl breeds were of more singular strains than what they became later. Trade in Asia was not necessarily as isolated in the ancient world as it became in modern times. There have been many empires in Asia that transcended modern political and ethnic boundaries. What a Malay was by 1900 AD may not have been what a Malay was in 1600 AD.

I would suggest thinking more about what you want your birds to be instead of what an artificial set of standards thinks they ought to be, then mine the genetics of similarly built and natured oriental gamefowl to freshen up what you have, then cull towards the traits you want.

Yeah I'm only just beginning to learn the history of chickens and like with everything else it seems we've got the Western version of history pretty well documented, but it always tends to derive from the east on a number of subjects. I was hoping there was a little more in the way of oriental fowl standards, which seem to be pretty elusive beyond the Japanese and Chinese breeds.

I think your suggestion is right until more Asian breeders get involved in our hemisphere, what suits my fancy (within reason) is probably the way to go. Some of the characteristics I'm looking for are large build, tall, cold hardy, parrot beaked, and comb-less.

Almost Terror Bird-like in appearance. Though not to the degree of re-creating a carnivorous ground hawk outside of small rodents and snakes. I'll leave that concept to Jack Horner

 

[MysteryChicken]

Thinking about getting some Aseels next year. Found a breeder that has roosters that can live together.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Yeah I'm only just beginning to learn the history of chickens and like with everything else it seems we've got the Western version of history pretty well documented, but it always tends to derive from the east on a number of subjects. I was hoping there was a little more in the way of oriental fowl standards, which seem to be pretty elusive beyond the Japanese and Chinese breeds.

I think your suggestion is right until more Asian breeders get involved in our hemisphere, what suits my fancy (within reason) is probably the way to go. Some of the characteristics I'm looking for are large build, tall, cold hardy, parrot beaked, and comb-less.

Almost Terror Bird-like in appearance. Though not to the degree of re-creating a carnivorous ground hawk outside of small rodents and snakes. I'll leave that concept to Jack Horner

That's actually what I call this line; I call them "terror fowl":

What I'm finding is that the various oriental and oriental-derived breeds can retain a strong terror-fowl look as chicks but as they mature they lose a lot of the reptilian look, at least to my eyes, although hens can sometimes retain it by having small pea combs and be waddle-less.

 

[AGeese]

That's actually what I call this line; I call them "terror fowl":

View attachment 2999741View attachment 2999742View attachment 2999744

What I'm finding is that the various oriental and oriental-derived breeds can retain a strong terror-fowl look as chicks but as they mature they lose a lot of the reptilian look, at least to my eyes, although hens can sometimes retain it by having small pea combs and be waddle-less.

Mighty tremendous bird there all around.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Took pictures of Goliath, & one of his future girlfriend's for a project I'll be starting.