Mama Heating Pad in the Brooder (Picture Heavy) - UPDATE

[Victoria-nola]

I free range. I take a few steps to ensure they are somewhat protected:. I have two fantastic dogs that ignore the birds but protect their territory, well established trees, plenty of areas to run for cover. I have lost 2 adult birds to predators, one I suspect a hawk the other was the neighbors dog.
I do appreciate the risk, but I feel the benefits outweigh the risks

I'm also an organic farm wife so I appreciate hearing from you. We don't have the dogs in place-- our two dogs are house dogs. I was all set to try to get livestock guardian dogs but I'm wondering, saw a reference recently where a free ranger said a good dog for this job doesn't have to be LGD. What kind of dogs do you have? Did you get them as puppies or adults? What do you do about your chicks and when they join up with the adults?

I feel like this is still on topic for MHP because if the idea is outdoor brooding via MHP, then surely ya'll are the best people to ask about how to make that happen, but do just let me know if this is considered off topic.

 

[aart]

Quote:

Also thanks for picking up on my need to work on safety. I had been thinking of overhead safety from hawks but not about crows and jays who can swoop in under the tree cover or barn overhang.


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Man, that is a HUGE overhang........may be an optical illusion, but I don't see anything supporting it....except the horizontals at the eaves?

heh. We've had a lot to contend with but yes, we need to get better support on this, it's on the list. This barn used to be more than twice this size until a tree fell on it. Apparently the farmer's family (the farmer was retired or passed on by then) just sort of tore it down to where it's just these 3 stalls left, with this big overhang. It's all built from recycled railroad boxcar sidings-- the main industry in this town for decades was the Illinois Central railroad boxcar refurbishment plant and there were summer layoffs every year so a lot of people had other jobs, like farming. The house and outbuildings are also built with this wood-- the best in the land it all was. You can see the lettering (upside down) on the beam up there in this next photo:


Ahhh, I couldn't see the other horizontals in the other pic......they should suffice if solid.
Not sure how a falling tree could have taken down the building underneath without ruining the roof and it's supports above<scratcheshead>
At any rate, it's kinda cool and the solid shade it offers has must be beneficial.

 

[OrganicFarmWife]

I have a Shepard mutt and another mutt that is probably lab and greyhound (judging by the way he runs). My Shepard I got as an abandoned dog at a shelter, she is the best dog I have ever owned. Saddly she is showing her age and down to three legs. I am currently trying to find another great dog. I figured I wouldn't get lucky twice so I am looking for a puppy to train, probably another Shepard mutt, Purebred English shepards are available and I would love to get one, but it is a long drive. When i loose the lab mutt I will probably look for a Great Dane Mutt.

 

[Victoria-nola]

They are solid, and thanks for the input. The barn was lots bigger than this-- the roof is corrugated panels of heavy material. So they decided to keep the back three stalls and a big overhang from what was left, and removed roof panels and sawed off the ends of the support beams and such, essentially cutting off all the rest of the smashed building. You can see that the front line of the roof is uneven from where it was removed unevenly.

But it really is very cool and yes, the solid shade is wonderful. It also means that in our warm climate the walls can be half-high but rain won't wash in. When we first got here we kept the chickens confined in the coop for I think 3 weeks, then when they started coming out they just hugged the barn edges for a very long time. It was winter and no leaves on the trees, but the barn overhang protected them and made them feel safe to explore out from there.

 

[Blooie]

I don't think the breed matters as much as the willingness to see what's around as "his" or "hers" and take care of it. In our case it was a birdy little English Setter who was our hunting dog, house dog, and as it turned out, our chicken protection dog. Not that we have a lots of predators around here, but we do have raccoons, a gabillion feral cats, and dogs, along with the occasional coyote to keep things interesting. But Molly was great with the chickens and one of the reasons I had no problem letting my chicks out with the big girls to speed integration along. We didn't do any training....she did it herself. She slept in the room where the brooder was located (back in the heat lamp days) and after a day or so of curiosity she paid them no further attention. When they went outside to live, that was a different story. They were MOVING...and she would sometimes point that run until she quivered. One day she tried to dig under the run and broke and bloodied a toenail on the hardware cloth skirt. She shot the chickens a dirty look over her shoulder as she limped away for some sympathy, as if the chickens were somehow responsible for her discomfort. And since she blamed them, she never again bothered them in any way, even when we started letting them loose in the yard. But woe onto the critter that showed up and started stalking the young chicks when they were out for free range time - she even leaped up after a raven swooping down one day. Miss that old girl!!

Of course it goes without saying that well-ingrained basic obedience and supervision are key....


Sleeping in the same room as the brooder. UGH, did I ever raise chicks that way???


She was great with our disabled little granddaughter....


...and made a wonderful pillow for watching TV.


Guarding the chicks (visible behind her) and waiting for me to finish up chores.


Look! Bookends!!

 

[bruceha2000]

I like to give my chicks sod just as soon as they are eating their crumble well. Really, there's no reason to not provide it just as soon as they start eating. As far as introducing them to the flock... there are a lot of issues specific to each flock. I had a mean bird so had to delay until they were a bit older. As long as their heat needs are being met, you can do it when it makes sense to you in your particular circumstances. Azygous provides a "panic room" with a entrance small enough that the little ones can come and go, but the big ones can't enter. Put their heating pad in there, and you should be good to go. The biggest issue related to early introduction would be if the littles are safe in your run situation? Is the wire mesh small enough that they can't get through it or get stuck in it? Could an aerial predator fly in and carry them off? (this includes: crows, hawks, blue jays, and not winged but certainly a threat: snakes, rats, and squirrels.)

The only thing that screwed up my broody raised chicks when I made a portal from the brooder pen into the coop was "HOW DO I GET IN????". Seems since they could see through the 1/2" hardware cloth to where they wanted to go, they couldn't understand why they couldn't get there. "Now exactly WHERE is that big hole???"

Next time I will put something opaque at their head level on both sides of the portal to make it more obvious. In my case, since I had a protective "mama" hen, they didn't need to worry about the big girls, I was just keeping the big girls out of the littles food and water.

Thank you. I will give them sod.

Also thanks for picking up on my need to work on safety. I had been thinking of overhead safety from hawks but not about crows and jays who can swoop in under the tree cover or barn overhang.


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The problem is that we don't have a run-- we have the coop that is strong and locked up at night, and then they have free range around the curtilege of the house. The photo is of our old barn, there are 3 stalls, the chickens are on the left, and it's all closed in with hardware cloth buried around the floor perimeter and up the walls to the roof, but there is an open space at the roof that a weasel could come through, so we still need to put in a HC ceiling. We have one of the auto chicken pop doors. We've only been here 5 months and the adults have been safe. At the risk of overwhelming with a long-winded post, I'll go ahead and send the following:

My plan originally was that they would be allowed to venture into the coop itself at 2 weeks (while being able to run back into the brooder through portals) and I had expected that the littles wouldn't be able to get out the pop door right away and that they'd spend a couple more weeks inside the main coop. Now I realize that the step up to the pop door from inside the coop will not present much of an impediment for very long. Outside the pop door there is a very large overhang of the barn roof and also heavy tree/leaf cover (big oak trees), and a cattle-panel fenced in area that's mainly to keep our 2 pet pigs away from the coop/food area. The chicks could easily wander out the cattle panels and be very vulnerable so I had already planned to attach to it a 3/4"-openings plastic poultry fence that will definitely keep the chicks from wandering into the woods.

Then on the barnyard side, there is a portal that the adult chickens use which I don't know how to fix yet except to confine them. And in fact snakes, rats and squirrels currently could get in the coop during the day when the pop door is open and I have the brooder set up to resist such predators but a determined one could cause harm. But also the rooster keeps an eye on the food/coop.

I expect that the littles will stick close to the adults once they are outside, whenever that turns out to be (and I'm rethinking a lot here). My adult chickens (all 3-4 years old) are extremely savvy about how they move around the property and when the sun is out they stay in shaded areas and actually run if they go between shady spots. The rooster is always on the lookout, herding for safety, and now all the trees are leafed out and there is a lot of cover, and we have had no losses in the 5 months we've been here on the farm. So I believe that they will be teaching the littles all this. It's just that there are other predators that aren't much threat to the adults and I'm sweating it on this. btw my adults are 9 EE hens and 1 blue Ameracauna rooster, the 10 littles are eggs from these chickens.

But yes, now I realize we probably have to construct a run. It's just that the adults are not going to want to stay confined and that would seem contradictory to the goal of easeful integration.

At a week they can easily fly up a foot, at 2 weeks 2' is no problem so you are right, they aren't going to be contained by the height from the floor to the open pop door.

I don't know that the littles will be following the bigs around and be shown anything. But my experience is with broody raised chicks. The broody let exactly 2 of the other 8 older hens near "her" chicks. She and one of those were a flock to themselves. When she showed them a favored shade spot all the older chickens left to find another one lest they suffer the "Wrath of Zorra" for being too close to the babies. When she kicked them to the curb at 2 months, the Faverolles still hung with them and continued to play "Aunt". They are all integrated now but it took some many months before they would go near the older hens on purpose.

Quote:

Also thanks for picking up on my need to work on safety. I had been thinking of overhead safety from hawks but not about crows and jays who can swoop in under the tree cover or barn overhang.


.

Man, that is a HUGE overhang........may be an optical illusion, but I don't see anything supporting it....except the horizontals at the eaves?

heh. We've had a lot to contend with but yes, we need to get better support on this, it's on the list. This barn used to be more than twice this size until a tree fell on it. Apparently the farmer's family (the farmer was retired or passed on by then) just sort of tore it down to where it's just these 3 stalls left, with this big overhang. It's all built from recycled railroad boxcar sidings-- the main industry in this town for decades was the Illinois Central railroad boxcar refurbishment plant and there were summer layoffs every year so a lot of people had other jobs, like farming. The house and outbuildings are also built with this wood-- the best in the land it all was. You can see the lettering (upside down) on the beam up there in this next photo:



That is a NICE overhang. Those "on edge" cantilevered joists look plenty strong enough to hold the roof especially considering I think your "snow load" is ZERO. The likely best reason to add a vertical support to the far end of the outside ones is to make an attachment point for wire on the run you are talking about making.

 

[lazy gardener]

I'm also an organic farm wife so I appreciate hearing from you. We don't have the dogs in place-- our two dogs are house dogs. I was all set to try to get livestock guardian dogs but I'm wondering, saw a reference recently where a free ranger said a good dog for this job doesn't have to be LGD. What kind of dogs do you have? Did you get them as puppies or adults? What do you do about your chicks and when they join up with the adults?

I feel like this is still on topic for MHP because if the idea is outdoor brooding via MHP, then surely ya'll are the best people to ask about how to make that happen, but do just let me know if this is considered off topic.

If you want guard dog advice talk to Bee Kissed. Others have guard dogs that do well with chickens, but she's done a lot of research and training, offers some good insights.

The only thing that screwed up my broody raised chicks when I made a portal from the brooder pen into the coop was "HOW DO I GET IN????". Seems since they could see through the 1/2" hardware cloth to where they wanted to go, they couldn't understand why they couldn't get there. "Now exactly WHERE is that big hole???"

Next time I will put something opaque at their head level on both sides of the portal to make it more obvious. In my case, since I had a protective "mama" hen, they didn't need to worry about the big girls, I was just keeping the big girls out of the littles food and water.


At a week they can easily fly up a foot, at 2 weeks 2' is no problem so you are right, they aren't going to be contained by the height from the floor to the open pop door.

I don't know that the littles will be following the bigs around and be shown anything. But my experience is with broody raised chicks. The broody let exactly 2 of the other 8 older hens near "her" chicks. She and one of those were a flock to themselves. When she showed them a favored shade spot all the older chickens left to find another one lest they suffer the "Wrath of Zorra" for being too close to the babies. When she kicked them to the curb at 2 months, the Faverolles still hung with them and continued to play "Aunt". They are all integrated now but it took some many months before they would go near the older hens on purpose.


That is a NICE overhang. Those "on edge" cantilevered joists look plenty strong enough to hold the roof especially considering I think your "snow load" is ZERO. The likely best reason to add a vertical support to the far end of the outside ones is to make an attachment point for wire on the run you are talking about making.

Agreed, having a contrasting frame around the opening will help immensely. With the overhang on that barn, I think my chief concern would be that it would take off in a wind storm!!!

 

[bmissouri]

Hi everyone, I have been reading most of this thread since my wife said she wanted chickens about a month ago now when I said I was going to try and raise some quail.

Our chicks should get here this week from Meyer hatchery and my quail eggs hopefully will be hatching Memorial Day weekend. I am planning to raise both chicken and quail with a heating pad in separate brooders on my covered patio. Once I am finished building the chicken coop they are getting moved out there right away.

I do have a few questions I hope someone can help with. The location. I am putting the brooders is covered and in the shade. Our weather is warming up fast and our high temps will be in the mid to upper 80's with lows in the 60's. Do y'all think I will need to start the heating pads at a 6 even with these warm temps? I may have missed it but did anyone cover brooding coturnix quail with the heating pad? I will try to upload some pictures of my brooders, thanks.

 

[COChix]

So our 7 week olds have begun practicing roosting in the coop at bedtime. So far they haven't stuck it out on the roosts. Tonight they decide to try their luck at roosting with the bigs at bedtime. They explored the various roosting spots, notice nobody else is in the coop. I figured they would be in the corner soon enough on the floor.m

They decided to go for the prime roosting spots, a roost with a window out into the covered run. Usually the oldest bird of the flock is in that window.....gotta admire their bravery.

Sure enough it didn't last long, they got chased off by a one-year-old pullet and ended up huddled in the corner on the floor near where the MHP use to be.

Does anyone force the roosting issue by putting them on the roost after dark? Or just let them figure it out on their own? The thing about putting them on the roost after dark, I am afraid, I would have to climb in the coop and they would cause a ruckus I am sure screaming as a strange hand grabs them out of the night. Thoughts?

 

[Victoria-nola]

Next time I will put something opaque at their head level on both sides of the portal to make it more obvious. In my case, since I had a protective "mama" hen, they didn't need to worry about the big girls, I was just keeping the big girls out of the littles food and water.

Excellent help, thank you, was actually wondering about that.

At a week they can easily fly up a foot, at 2 weeks 2' is no problem so you are right, they aren't going to be contained by the height from the floor to the open pop door.

I don't know that the littles will be following the bigs around and be shown anything.

Didn't know those were the numbers, but yeah, popdoor height is not going to keep them inside. I am assuming that if they are integrated into the flock that they will be staying with the adults because the rooster pretty much insists that they all stay together. Now that the trees are leafed out he's a bit more relaxed and will let some smaller groups form, but he regularly rounds them all up and marches them to the coop to chow down or marches them to the dust bath area, etc.


That is a NICE overhang. Those "on edge" cantilevered joists look plenty strong enough to hold the roof especially considering I think your "snow load" is ZERO. The likely best reason to add a vertical support to the far end of the outside ones is to make an attachment point for wire on the run you are talking about making.

Thank you, I reallly appreciate hearing folks think it is stable. Yes, snow load is zero most years. Good idea on attachment point

I don't think the breed matters as much as the willingness to see what's around as "his" or "hers" and take care of it.

Of course it goes without saying that well-ingrained basic obedience and supervision are key....

Thank you for your story/illustrations. I started wondering about the need for a Livestock Guardian Dog because it turns out a lot of them aren't good with chickens. And then read BeeKissed free range article.

I have a Shepard mutt and another mutt that is probably lab and greyhound (judging by the way he runs). My Shepard I got as an abandoned dog at a shelter, she is the best dog I have ever owned. Saddly she is showing her age and down to three legs. I am currently trying to find another great dog. I figured I wouldn't get lucky twice so I am looking for a puppy to train, probably another Shepard mutt, Purebred English shepards are available and I would love to get one, but it is a long drive. When i loose the lab mutt I will probably look for a Great Dane Mutt.

Thank you, good food for thought.

Agreed, having a contrasting frame around the opening will help immensely. With the overhang on that barn, I think my chief concern would be that it would take off in a wind storm!!!

Heh.

Thanks again, everyone. I'll ask BeeKissed more.