Manual turners: how are we holding our eggs?

[5.3acredream]

I'm building an incubator and the one thing I'm still mulling over is how I'm holding my eggs in the incubator. What has worked well for everyone in the past?

Should I just have them fat end up and at an angle in egg cartons? On their sides flat? Should I be making a sand or rice husk bowl with indents to perch them in position? I tend to overcomplicate so let me know, please!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I'm building an incubator and the one thing I'm still mulling over is how I'm holding my eggs in the incubator. What has worked well for everyone in the past?

Should I just have them fat end up and at an angle in egg cartons? On their sides flat? Should I be making a sand or rice husk bowl with indents to perch them in position?

Do you have an automatic turner? If so, what does it look like?

I tend to overcomplicate so let me know, please!

I understand. My wife is the same way and is just not happy if I try to simplify things. But I'll take that chance if you are turning them by hand. Lay them flat. Mark one side and then the opposite side. I use a red X on one side and a black O on the other. Then turn them so all the X's are up. When you turn them, turn all of the O's up.

I'm not familiar with the sand or rice method. Sounds complicated.
There are usually many different ways to accomplish things. People are often worrying about the "best". To me, the best is the way you can do it.

 

[RoseHawke]

I think at least part of the answer might depend on the design of the incubator itself. Just a guess, but it seems to me the absolutely simplest thing would be to put them in egg cartons and tilt the incubator itself (45°?) however many times per day. That would keep you from having to open it anyway.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Tilting could solve the turning concern to a point, but I see one or possibly two problems with tilting the incubator.
One is how the water reservoir is designed and spilling.
The other relates to whether it is a still air or forced air incubator. Problems with incubation will occur if it is still air and possible forced air as well. If still air and the incubator is tilted, thermal stratification will cause the high side to get too hot, and the low side will definitely be too cool. This could be exacerbated by placement of the temperature sensor. If the eggs heat significantly above 99.5 several times a day and cool just as frequently, I don't think the embryos could survive a couple weeks of that.
The third week, turning is much less important.
Depending on the size and shape of the incubator, tilting it 45° could cause a difference of up to 6 F or more from top to bottom. Any amount of time that elevates internal egg temperature above 104 will kill the embryos.

 

[5.3acredream]

So I read an interesting research paper on tilting vs rotation: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2622816/. If I'm reading it correctly, it suggested that 45 degree tilts resulted in more late stage mortality than simple turning. I haven't gone far enough in this to read refuting science, which I am sure is out there.

 

[RoseHawke]

I see one or possibly two problems with tilting the incubator.
One is how the water reservoir is designed and spilling.
The other relates to whether it is a still air or forced air incubator. Problems with incubation will occur if it is still air and possible forced air as well. If still air and the incubator is tilted, thermal stratification will cause the high side to get too hot and the low side will definitely be too cool. This could be exacerbated by placement of the temperature sensor. If the eggs heat significantly above 99.5 several times a day and cool just as frequently, I don't think the embryos could survive a couple weeks of that.
The third week, turning is much less important.

The reason I quantified with how the incubator is designed. Computer fans are cheap, so I would assume forced air. And, here's a thought, on humidity issues, doing a dry incubation for the first couple of weeks after which as you point out turning (or tilting) either one wouldn't be as necessary and humidity could be fairly easily handled with a bit of experimentation.

I know the Brinsea I've got has a little pump mechanism that slowly drips onto a piece of blotter paper when additional humidity is necessary. You could jigger up something similar with an aquarium airline (1/8" tubing) that has a knot in it running a siphon from a bottle or jar of water. Waaaaaay back in the day I used to do something similar for acclimating tropical fish to my planted aquaria. The drip rate can be controlled by how tight or loose the knot is.

 

[Yardmom]

Under a hen eggs lay flat. If designing my own I would stick with keeping things the way they are in nature.

 

[Altairsky]

I lay my eggs flat on a self made grid.
I pull a string on one end of the grid, and the other. Pulling the grid from side to side makes the eggs roll.
Mark the sides of the eggs so you know when they rolled 180 degrees.

 

[Ridgerunner]

So I read an interesting research paper on tilting vs rotation: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2622816/. If I'm reading it correctly, it suggested that 45 degree tilts resulted in more late stage mortality than simple turning. I haven't gone far enough in this to read refuting science, which I am sure is out there.

I believe the results could have been presented much clearer. If I read that correctly (probably did not) Test #5 is the only one where at least some were horizontal. The rest were some version of vertical. I'm not always clear as to what the control group treatment actually was.

I saw a study several years ago from the country of Turkey where it showed results of not turning at all. Not turning them is definitely worse, but the results were not as bad as I expected them to be. Same as this study. That's my main takeaway. Turning whether you tilt or turn helps more than not turning them at all.

The way I look at this, if you were a commercial hatchery hatching 1,000,000 chicks each week this would make a real difference. The percentages add up. But if you are hatching a few chicks each year you probably will not notice the difference. Still, it is a fascinating topic and if you can get a clear directive it would be the way to go.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I lay my eggs flat on a self made grid.
I pull a string on one end of the grid, and the other. Pulling the grid from side to side makes the eggs roll.
Mark the sides of the eggs so you know when they rolled 180 degrees.

That may be the best approach except you have to be there. Maybe a way to automate it.
It will definitely simulate a setting hen. Hers are on their side and she scratches at them, she doesn't mark the eggs so I doubt she has any idea how far she turned each egg. Perhaps that's why they do it so often the first week or two.