Marans Owners -- anything "bad" about this breed?

[Arklady]

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Arky says: If I just wanted Marans for yard color and egg basket color and someone showed me extra dark eggs and I thinking that bought those birds "thinking" I would got those dark eggs. You were deceived. Thats the truth straight up no chaser.

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Arky says: I studied several years before investing in these birds as should all serious breeders. To find out what the best is and then decide if you want to truely start at the bottom. Which is what I decided to do. In that way I will be creating my "own line" and they will be genuine because I chose to start with the Cuckoo which has a set type of color range greater than some of the others you can start with. Say for instance the Black or the White which have limited color variations when compared to the cuckoo. There again I decided and chose to be at the bottom of Pure bred French Marans offered out there today.

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Arky says: Indeed having low quality Marans is not a crime and I know plenty of people who do not care about the color scale of the eggs they just like them because they have darker than Rir eggs and it makes a nice looking multicolored dozen.

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Arky says: I will never present my birds as show quality, they are at the bottom rung of the pure breeds but what I do offer is pure French Marans not crossed with any other breed of bird to create a hybrid or not infused with someone elses Black coppers to make mine look better. What "I" offer is the pure quality and the ability to pass on the Breed as whole not crossbred. Even if I had birds which I start using say KAKBucks. I would do so because I know by just looking at them that they are from a good line, and lack the disqualification which mine have. I would get eggs for an EXPERIMENTAL breeding to birds needing help in that area.

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Arky says: You know how many people out there are brandishing Black Copper around and say they are good but the French say otherwise. I am not saying their birds are not good and I am not saying they are to be thought of as a liar but I am saying they still need work. Because I can tell by looking at them that they do! Most of those Black Coppers floating around they did not breed them, they bought eggs from someone who did the breeding like Bev Davis who has put years and thousands of $$$ into her stock. You won't find Ideal and McMurry putting that kind of work into their birds they bought good stock and sell good eggs thats their job. Its a store. They bought better stock for their silkies as well, they are in business for a reason money... if they breed on a personal basis they aren't saying.


Arklady

 

[Arklady]

On a side note, I don't think it is bad to sell Black Coppers even bad ones. People love the Black Copper they are great birds. But so many times they do not say, "hey I bought these from Bev Davis." or who ever they bought them from. If you buy mine you will be getting mine. But I am far from that and when I sell my black coppers I will be desiring people who don't want to fuss with the breeding program to buy my birds because..... Breeding programs are incredibility expensive.

Thus the high prices! When I have birds I cannot or will not use. I do tell the buyers that this bird has the potential to be good stock for future lines. But I make sure they understand they are going to be pouring time and money into the program.

As it is I have to limit how many birds I hatch to find that perfect chick and deal with getting rid of the ones I won't use for what ever the reasons... Like the Fawn colored pullets I hatched out. I have to figure out where those two fit in, OR I will sell them as LAYERS of dark eggs with no roo.

I do generally sell my non-program birds as layers and I only sell roosters when they are going with like say a quad, in fact I prefer selling in quads. Generally I only sell Cuckoos because my program is small and I need the space. I would love to have a larger breeding program but finances prohibit that at this time.

Arklady

PS I thought this thread 'was' about education and support on the breed.

 

[tfpets]

"Arklady PS I thought this thread 'was' about education and support on the breed."

It still is, isnt it? I think we're getting a valuable lesson in the breed, and those who breed and have them. I am not trying to insult, but find out more about how to go from the oops of having the birds we have, to a goal oriented program such as your own, or maybe a happy medium. Still need to know what we've got at home, at some point, and that will take further education! We need a Marans Information Thread!

The original topic - which I am enthusiastic about even though I dont know exactly where my birds came from, or how standard they are, was if there is anything "bad" about this breed?

I dont think there is anything "bad" about the ones I have - the question seems to have become, do I, or many others, really have Marans? If I dont, I really would love to have some! I still love mine, they're great birds, with great qualities. I have pets, for now. (Hmmm, I am part of tfpets.) In our enthusiasm, we have shared what we have. Their quality, reality, egg color, etc. all seem to have come into question.

I absolutely honor and respect your knowledge of the Marans, and appreciate the time that you have put into learning about them, and the continuing effort you put into educating others. It can only help the breed to have mentors that are open and willing to reach out and provide us this information. I hope you will not be offended by further inquiries or opinions. I am not used to communicating on forums, and find it hard to maintain a stream of thought this long - hopefully my posts/opinions did not offend?

Rats if it did, I find you to be a valuable resource, I would hope you would be available in case I did decide to delve further into "real" marans and a breeding program? Regardless, thank you for everything you have shared so far. Tina

 

[Arklady]

Its really tough to offend me. lol I know people and how they are.

As far as Marans go... I have a lot to learn myself and I find tome of the so called Marans sites more about selling than actual information of breeding how to come up with compatible dna for the birds that I and others have. Thats why knowning where your birds come from is important so you don't tighten the already to tight gene pool because of the inability to import fresh Dna from France.

Marans are supposed to be large majestic birds with even tempers, broody without being annoyingly so. I find mine to be easy to work with, as the roosters don't view me as a threat. Which some other breeds like leghorns *shudders* and other breeds like that do.

They don't let me pick them up but they will allow me to move them where I want without much fuss. The older they get though as usual the harder it is to get close. As a rule I let my birds be birds and I am the caregiver.

I too bought some of the ready made Black coppers but they were too angular and stood to upright and the tail was nearly 90º upright which is a big disqualification. The sop says they should have head/neck and tail both about 45º with a boxy type body. I didn't see that in these birds but oh my they were beautiful birds. They just had too many conformation problems to work with.

Also Black coppers are incompatible as mates with Wheatons and some people have made mistakes thinking if they breed a BC roo to a Wheaton hen, *and trust me you can't hardly tell them apart* you ruin the egg and color development. In fact y ou must be very careful to get the Wheaton roo and wheaton hen together, mixed matches is disasterous, say Wheaton roo and BC hen.

There really genetic poles apart. I hatched out 4 Marans this past week, one is mostly yellow and I will be excited to see what comes from that. I would love to take pictures but my slave *my son* isn't willing to help lmao...

As I said before I have been trying to get a discussion on Marans started before but I have seen little responses to have it happen other than the Yahoo Group. But I did read some of those posts and I wasn't over enlightened by their posts because it sounded like a place where peeps can sell their birds. Or at the least advertise they have peeps online. I will keep checking for a while though.

I got more information from Bev Davis on an email than I did reading a whole bunch of posts on other site.

Arklady

 

[theOEGBman]

I figured I'd pop in and voice my opinion!

I have one Marans hen, she's a Cuckoo. I got her in February from a local breeder. She's from good lines, and her eggs are beautiful and dark. I heard that they arent the best layers, but mine is great! I get atleast 4, sometimes 5, eggs a week from her. Not amazing compared to my NNs, but a whole lot better than what I expected!

 

[Oblio13]

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Why are mixed matches disastrous? And why is it difficult to tell wheatens from black coppers? Mine look very different. I have both wheatens and black coppers, and was planning on only keeping the wheaten roo. The wheaten gene is recessive so I was under the impression that if you cross them you will get black coppers but the chicks will be carrying the recessive gene. If you do a sibling mating you will get back to wheaten again or if you breed one of those chicks to a wheaten you will get wheaten. Enlighten me if I'm mistaken before I mess up my flock.

 

[Arklady]

From the French Marans Site --- The crossings of the Wheat variety with the Brown-red or Silver-Cuckoo variety must be avoided by theorie because these varieties are born of different genetic families and mutations. Needless to say, however, that if it deals with protecting a valuable "wheat" stock from its extinction for example, or even especially because the egg color is no longer true. This crossing type with the Brown-red variety constitutes a case of emergency which must be recommanded.

I didn't write that they did...

http://marans-club.club.fr/froang.htm#FRO

Arklady​

 

[ninjapoodles]

I think you're both right:

# - So in theory, the Brown-red v. is only dominating by the genes of the Marans varieties of the first family (that is to say by the Plain-Black or the Silver-Cuckoo which are born of the Plain-Black).

# - on the other hand, the Brown-red dominates all the other known varieties of the Marans. Consequently, all these colors are going to disappear at first sight in the descendance of a crossing with the Brown-red.

# - so, the Brown-red, so famous and representative of our national Marans, is theorically, genetically and directly incompatible with the other Marans varieties which are at present admitted.​

 

[Arklady]

That is very cool because then I could use any cuckoo or any black Marans to infuse fresh DNA into a flock of Black coppers and would have minor issues with pattern disruption.

Where as the opposite is a epic night mare?

Hmmmm....

Arklady

 

[ninjapoodles]

They do have this note specific to the silver cuckoo variety:

Nota bene : in the search of an improvment of the Silver-Cuckoo variety, it is better to choose good "Birchen" subjects laying nice eggs.

However, the improving crossings of the Silver-Cuckoo variety with the Brown-red produce good results because, in the Marans, the Silver-Cuckoo is probably born of the Brown-red variety and not of the Plain-Black's whose existance seems genetically more enigmatic...

There, and a couple of other places, though the translation is a little shaky, they SEEM to be saying that silver cuckoo was originally a mutation of the brown red (coppered black) variety.

Don't they? That's how I'm reading it, anyway. I wish there was an actual human translation instead of a computer translation.​