Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[Debbi]

Quote:
Good idea Don, wish I had another single combed breed to try it with. On the other hand, I can tell you right now, if you breed something like my "Muttley's" comb (huge carnation), to a single combed bird, you are going to get carnations. They may be of a lesser size than his, but carnations none the less. I do see where you are coming from, and it would be a great way to test it for sure.

I hope no one here thought my temper was flaring, that was not the case. I tend to use the all capital letters, when I need to make a certain point stand out. It's easier for some of us to see the more pertinent words and combos. I love the debates here, as Lisa said, it is the way to learn! If people had been more truthful about this problem before, we wouldn't be here now hashing it out!

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
I would say they are clean as you have raised off spring. I would do a quick test mating and make sure. Until you prove the matings just single mate for now.

This year I bought 12 wheaten eggs off ebay and hatched 6 chicks and one male and one female had a big Carnation Comb much bigger than anything I have seen on here. I wish I had of kept the male would of done some test matings out of breed to set up a testing program.

I would suggest that anyone belonging to one of the Marans clubs start talking to them about the problem and get it out in the open. This has been kept covered up for to long.

I still plan on raising some Blue Coppers.

It has been brought up in the MCC, our very own Debbi put out a GRAND statement and informative email on it. Lots of folks had no clue...so Debbi and I posted some photos.



So....back to Gnarles... thinking that any offspring that I still have from him will need to be culled or tested, which is it?

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Kim, I would do a test breeding and try an out of breed mating. If you have had several young from this male and nothing showed up until the outcross. Until people start testing their Marans I would not buy eggs or chicks from anyone, Everyone probably has this Penne blood.

I tell ya what I think I can do soon as I have the time to switch up some birds.....I am going to put the birds from Florida back in with Gnarles and set some more eggs as soon as they are clear of Lil' Bill stuff. Then I will put my Barnevelder rooster in with my original hens and do some test eggs. Oh...Mr. Ughzie buggzie boooo, my Barnie roo is all to happy to mingle.

Kim, why not put Gnarles with some clean hen out of breed also as you already know you will get tainted young if you breed the other way.

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
I would say they are clean as you have raised off spring. I would do a quick test mating and make sure. Until you prove the matings just single mate for now.

This year I bought 12 wheaten eggs off ebay and hatched 6 chicks and one male and one female had a big Carnation Comb much bigger than anything I have seen on here. I wish I had of kept the male would of done some test matings out of breed to set up a testing program.

I would suggest that anyone belonging to one of the Marans clubs start talking to them about the problem and get it out in the open. This has been kept covered up for to long.

I still plan on raising some Blue Coppers.

It has been brought up in the MCC, our very own Debbi put out a GRAND statement and informative email on it. Lots of folks had no clue...so Debbi and I posted some photos.



So....back to Gnarles... thinking that any offspring that I still have from him will need to be culled or tested, which is it?

Kim, if the Gnarles young are from the same matings that have produced the tainted fowl I would cull and eliminate the problem.

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
I tell ya what I think I can do soon as I have the time to switch up some birds.....I am going to put the birds from Florida back in with Gnarles and set some more eggs as soon as they are clear of Lil' Bill stuff. Then I will put my Barnevelder rooster in with my original hens and do some test eggs. Oh...Mr. Ughzie buggzie boooo, my Barnie roo is all to happy to mingle.

Kim, why not put Gnarles with some clean hen out of breed also as you already know you will get tainted young if you breed the other way.

Good thinking! I wasn't even thinking about putting different breed hens in with him....my mind was stuck on the roosters and the only other rooster I have of a different breed right now since I had to put down my Wellie rooster last week is a Barnevelder. I have lots of Delaware pullets and hens I am not going to be using for breeding I can put in with him.

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
I would say they are clean as you have raised off spring. I would do a quick test mating and make sure. Until you prove the matings just single mate for now.

This year I bought 12 wheaten eggs off ebay and hatched 6 chicks and one male and one female had a big Carnation Comb much bigger than anything I have seen on here. I wish I had of kept the male would of done some test matings out of breed to set up a testing program.

I would suggest that anyone belonging to one of the Marans clubs start talking to them about the problem and get it out in the open. This has been kept covered up for to long.

I still plan on raising some Blue Coppers.

Don, I did bring this matter up on the MCCU yahoo group, and I got plenty of responses to it! Some sounded very dismissive, like I had no clue what I was talking about. Some denied ever seeing a Carnation comb. Others kept referring to it as a "Coronation" comb. I've learned more about the doings and beginnings of this breed in the past 2 weeks than I thought possible! Interesting stuff, and I will say I take all info with a pound of salt, and will be vetting the sources. It is a HUGE problem with this breed, and because it was never brought up before, most people have no clue what to even look for, so on it proceeds. Then there are others that just don't give a hairy rat's patootee, and on it goes some more.

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Good idea Don, wish I had another single combed breed to try it with. On the other hand, I can tell you right now, if you breed something like my "Muttley's" comb (huge carnation), to a single combed bird, you are going to get carnations. They may be of a lesser size than his, but carnations none the less. I do see where you are coming from, and it would be a great way to test it for sure.

I hope no one here thought my temper was flaring, that was not the case. I tend to use the all capital letters, when I need to make a certain point stand out. It's easier for some of us to see the more pertinent words and combos. I love the debates here, as Lisa said, it is the way to learn! If people had been more truthful about this problem before, we wouldn't be here now hashing it out!

Debbi, I never though you were angry as we can usually say what is on our mind. The only way any of this will ever be cleaned up is if people like us keep talking about a way to make it easier to test ways test our breeder flock.


I just do not believe enough is known about how Carnation Comb works so we need to do our own research and document the result for others to be take advantage of , and the results could even be posted here on BYC for everyone could see what is going on.

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
Kim, why not put Gnarles with some clean hen out of breed also as you already know you will get tainted young if you breed the other way.

Good thinking! I wasn't even thinking about putting different breed hens in with him....my mind was stuck on the roosters and the only other rooster I have of a different breed right now since I had to put down my Wellie rooster last week is a Barnevelder. I have lots of Delaware pullets and hens I am not going to be using for breeding I can put in with him.

Kim, I hate to say this, but those little nubs on Gnarles' comb are indicators to me, that he does carry ONE gene for the carnation.

I will try to get some pics today of the Clyde son that has a fairly nice comb, but I KNOW is a carrier, (mom had the one gene), and you can see the same type of nubs and atypical points on his comb too.

If you want to make sure, do like Don said and breed him out of his breed. However, you won't get any carnations. You may get some odd points on the offspring, but no carnations. Same with your original girls. If you breed him back to the Florida girls, you will get more carnations and weirdo points, as they seem to be carriers. I can't say as all of them are carriers, but some of them sure are, as proven by JR.

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
It has been brought up in the MCC, our very own Debbi put out a GRAND statement and informative email on it. Lots of folks had no clue...so Debbi and I posted some photos.



So....back to Gnarles... thinking that any offspring that I still have from him will need to be culled or tested, which is it?

Kim, if the Gnarles young are from the same matings that have produced the tainted fowl I would cull and eliminate the problem.

No they are not from the same matings. They are some of Gnarles first kids from my original hens. If Gnarles is a carrier and possibly only carries one copy of the gene and was bred to my original hens that are clean....then there is a possibility that they (they being some of Gnarles' oldest daughters I have here..gosh some are 2 years old already) carry one copy of the gene right? But when they are bred back to Gnarles (who obviously produces carnations with the right hen) no stupid combs are produced...does this mean they are clean?
Surely if I have been breeding them for 2 years and nothing, then they are clean, right?

Gosh it's so easy to over think this whole thing isn't it?

I do the math and everytime I keep coming up with the same answer.....the common factors here are the birds from Florida and Gnarles.

 

[Debbi]

Lynette,

Thanks for posting the pic of that blue hen, therein is where a lot of this problem lies!! I will never breed a hen with a comb like that. Not talking about the sprig, just referring to the way the comb flops. That is an indicator of Pene blood! Those huge combs on hens also hide quite a few problems as well, and people tend to only check the roos' combs, and let the hen's combs just slide. The hens and pullets do carry the gene, do express the carnations, and WILL pass it on.