Marans Thread - breed discussion & pictures are welcome!

[Brada Puhi]

Aloha, here are pictures of my blue copper marans pullet. Any comments?

 

[Burleigh Chick]

lol, those are 2 pics of the same bird!.....

 

[desertmarcy]

Chickee~


Things I look for while chicks are growing out.

From hatch:
Crooked toes, curled toes, cross beak, green legs, yellow legs, splay leg ( most often splay leg can be fixed, but even though they are fixed it does not mean I will breed from that bird), slipped tendon, fused toes or webbed toes, failure to thrive ( I usually cull chicks that are not thrifty as I don’t want to breed that forward). I am sure there are some things I am missing and hope others will chime in with their thoughts.

From about a week old to about 6 or so weeks of age I watch them closely as they feather out and I start watching for mossiness. Mossy can be seen coming in on them very early. I have had a few mossy chicks that were produced from birds that I brought in from other breeders, I will not breed a mossy bird as I believe that it is a sure sign of Wheaten influences in genetics. There are other signs of Wheaten influences in the BCM and Blue Copper varieties that I watch for as well if the birds I am raising are outcrosses from other lines, I watch for shafting in the breast of both male and females. Shafting is where the shaft of the feather is not black but looks more of a goldish yellowy color and the feather looks orangey stippled.
Over the next couple of months as the chicks now look like little miniature chickens and should be fully feathered out, I usually have had my eye on a few of them since hatch that appear that they are going to be good typey birds. This is something that you can see when they are very young but it is learned, it took me years to be able to spot certain traits in young chicks that help me make choices early on for type and conformation. One of the easiest things for me to spot on young birds is their head shape and the distance between their legs, more on the legs below.
Even in very young birds I watch for how wide the bird is going to be in the shoulders and down the back to the tail. I look for good tail sets, long backs, nice deep keels and good distance between the legs when they are standing. I cull all birds that look knock-kneed or that have very little distance between the legs, I believe they are too narrow of a bodied bird and do not produce good offspring by way of broadness and type.

This is also when I start narrowing them down by combs. I keep all that show a good number of points, whether they have 6 or 4, I’ve even been known to keep a bird with 3 points of the rest of the bird is good. If I see a sprig, no matter what the rest of the bird is like, they are culled. Twisted combs are another thing to look for and watch. Some will have a small twist at the front of the comb and I would say that most of the time this twist or wave grows out with the bird and corrects itself, it’s when it does not that I will cull. I cull all birds that have a twist in the blade of the comb (where the blade turns to the right or the left) it will breed forward and is undesirable when breeding to the SOP. I will also remove birds for the head shape at this age, if they don’t have a big proud strong head, they are not bred. Vicki posted a photo of one of her pullets not too long ago that showed a great example of a nice Marans head. If we ask her nice I bet she would post it again for us. 

At about a couple months or a bit older you can really see these little beasts personalities blossom and their bodies start to take shape. They change very fast from here to sexual maturity and males can change even more until 1 year of age plus.
I like to start looking for nice open tails and how they carry the tail and present themselves. I take note of birds that have a more pinched tail and watch them grow, if it remains, they are culled from the program. Squirrel tail and roach back are a couple other things a person can see pretty early on and cull for. Wry tail is another, but it is IME, not as easy to spot on a younger bird vs. a bird that is approx. 4-5 months old.
After about 2-3 months of age, I start really watching the plumage color and copper. I watch for things such as edging on the Blue Coppers (BCM breeders need not worry about this) and I watch the copper coming in and the tone of it as well as tone of the blue. BCM breeders would also be watching for the tone of copper and also if the black underfluff has a brownish tint to it. Brownish tinted underfluff that is just not true black is said to be another sign of Wheaten influences.
From here until about 5-6 months of age, I just watch them closely because they do a lot of changing during this time. I look for any white in the hackles of the males specifically. I also look for other things that I may have missed along the way or if the bird is just slow to show any faults or such. This is also the time that eye color changes on both male and female. Dark eyed birds are culled unless they have more good to offer than not, but for the most part I try to keep and breed birds with correct eye color. White in the wing tip that happens in some young Marans, if they have it, should by this time be covered or covering by black. I should say that if it is still there after their first molt it is undesirable and considered a fault for SOP breedings.
Now it’s the wait and see egg color game.
Will come back with more later with an edited post. I also hope that everyone else pops by and discusses what they do and adds to it and points out tons of things I know I missed and didn’t touch on or corrects me if I have misspoken. Also it’s great to get as many opinions as you can because what I might be breeding and looking for may be completely different than what the next person is looking and breeding for in their program.

I would add cull for clean legs/toes at hatch. I'm sure you overlooked that because it is a no-brainer when you have been breeding Marans for a while like you have.

 

[rebschix]

they're so very pretty! i think I want some

 

[chickee]

Chickee~


Things I look for while chicks are growing out.

From hatch:
Crooked toes, curled toes, cross beak, green legs, yellow legs, splay leg ( most often splay leg can be fixed, but even though they are fixed it does not mean I will breed from that bird), slipped tendon, fused toes or webbed toes, failure to thrive ( I usually cull chicks that are not thrifty as I don’t want to breed that forward). I am sure there are some things I am missing and hope others will chime in with their thoughts.

From about a week old to about 6 or so weeks of age I watch them closely as they feather out and I start watching for mossiness. Mossy can be seen coming in on them very early. I have had a few mossy chicks that were produced from birds that I brought in from other breeders, I will not breed a mossy bird as I believe that it is a sure sign of Wheaten influences in genetics. There are other signs of Wheaten influences in the BCM and Blue Copper varieties that I watch for as well if the birds I am raising are outcrosses from other lines, I watch for shafting in the breast of both male and females. Shafting is where the shaft of the feather is not black but looks more of a goldish yellowy color and the feather looks orangey stippled.
Over the next couple of months as the chicks now look like little miniature chickens and should be fully feathered out, I usually have had my eye on a few of them since hatch that appear that they are going to be good typey birds. This is something that you can see when they are very young but it is learned, it took me years to be able to spot certain traits in young chicks that help me make choices early on for type and conformation. One of the easiest things for me to spot on young birds is their head shape and the distance between their legs, more on the legs below.
Even in very young birds I watch for how wide the bird is going to be in the shoulders and down the back to the tail. I look for good tail sets, long backs, nice deep keels and good distance between the legs when they are standing. I cull all birds that look knock-kneed or that have very little distance between the legs, I believe they are too narrow of a bodied bird and do not produce good offspring by way of broadness and type.

This is also when I start narrowing them down by combs. I keep all that show a good number of points, whether they have 6 or 4, I’ve even been known to keep a bird with 3 points of the rest of the bird is good. If I see a sprig, no matter what the rest of the bird is like, they are culled. Twisted combs are another thing to look for and watch. Some will have a small twist at the front of the comb and I would say that most of the time this twist or wave grows out with the bird and corrects itself, it’s when it does not that I will cull. I cull all birds that have a twist in the blade of the comb (where the blade turns to the right or the left) it will breed forward and is undesirable when breeding to the SOP. I will also remove birds for the head shape at this age, if they don’t have a big proud strong head, they are not bred. Vicki posted a photo of one of her pullets not too long ago that showed a great example of a nice Marans head. If we ask her nice I bet she would post it again for us. 

At about a couple months or a bit older you can really see these little beasts personalities blossom and their bodies start to take shape. They change very fast from here to sexual maturity and males can change even more until 1 year of age plus.
I like to start looking for nice open tails and how they carry the tail and present themselves. I take note of birds that have a more pinched tail and watch them grow, if it remains, they are culled from the program. Squirrel tail and roach back are a couple other things a person can see pretty early on and cull for. Wry tail is another, but it is IME, not as easy to spot on a younger bird vs. a bird that is approx. 4-5 months old.
After about 2-3 months of age, I start really watching the plumage color and copper. I watch for things such as edging on the Blue Coppers (BCM breeders need not worry about this) and I watch the copper coming in and the tone of it as well as tone of the blue. BCM breeders would also be watching for the tone of copper and also if the black underfluff has a brownish tint to it. Brownish tinted underfluff that is just not true black is said to be another sign of Wheaten influences.
From here until about 5-6 months of age, I just watch them closely because they do a lot of changing during this time. I look for any white in the hackles of the males specifically. I also look for other things that I may have missed along the way or if the bird is just slow to show any faults or such. This is also the time that eye color changes on both male and female. Dark eyed birds are culled unless they have more good to offer than not, but for the most part I try to keep and breed birds with correct eye color. White in the wing tip that happens in some young Marans, if they have it, should by this time be covered or covering by black. I should say that if it is still there after their first molt it is undesirable and considered a fault for SOP breedings.
Now it’s the wait and see egg color game.
Will come back with more later with an edited post. I also hope that everyone else pops by and discusses what they do and adds to it and points out tons of things I know I missed and didn’t touch on or corrects me if I have misspoken. Also it’s great to get as many opinions as you can because what I might be breeding and looking for may be completely different than what the next person is looking and breeding for in their program.

WOW! Thanks SO much!! This is super helpful!!! Really nice of you to take the time to write this out for me and others that are learning!! Thank-you VERY much!!

 

[rebschix]

My FBCM babies with their adopted mom! I'm just hatching for fun and darker eggs! My Cuckoo's lay very light eggs, and I'm a little disappointed, but it's for fun, afterall, andI love to watch them, and steal their eggs for breakfast

 

[HighNDryFarm]

Chickee~



Things I look for while chicks are growing out.


From hatch:

Crooked toes, curled toes, cross beak, green legs, yellow legs, splay leg ( most often splay leg can be fixed, but even though they are fixed it does not mean I will breed from that bird), slipped tendon, fused toes or webbed toes, failure to thrive ( I usually cull chicks that are not thrifty as I don’t want to breed that forward). I am sure there are some things I am missing and hope others will chime in with their thoughts.


From about a week old to about 6 or so weeks of age I watch them closely as they feather out and I start watching for mossiness. Mossy can be seen coming in on them very early. I have had a few mossy chicks that were produced from birds that I brought in from other breeders, I will not breed a mossy bird as I believe that it is a sure sign of Wheaten influences in genetics. There are other signs of Wheaten influences in the BCM and Blue Copper varieties that I watch for as well if the birds I am raising are outcrosses from other lines, I watch for shafting in the breast of both male and females. Shafting is where the shaft of the feather is not black but looks more of a goldish yellowy color and the feather looks orangey stippled.

Over the next couple of months as the chicks now look like little miniature chickens and should be fully feathered out, I usually have had my eye on a few of them since hatch that appear that they are going to be good typey birds. This is something that you can see when they are very young but it is learned, it took me years to be able to spot certain traits in young chicks that help me make choices early on for type and conformation. One of the easiest things for me to spot on young birds is their head shape and the distance between their legs, more on the legs below.

Even in very young birds I watch for how wide the bird is going to be in the shoulders and down the back to the tail. I look for good tail sets, long backs, nice deep keels and good distance between the legs when they are standing. I cull all birds that look knock-kneed or that have very little distance between the legs, I believe they are too narrow of a bodied bird and do not produce good offspring by way of broadness and type.


This is also when I start narrowing them down by combs. I keep all that show a good number of points, whether they have 6 or 4, I’ve even been known to keep a bird with 3 points of the rest of the bird is good. If I see a sprig, no matter what the rest of the bird is like, they are culled. Twisted combs are another thing to look for and watch. Some will have a small twist at the front of the comb and I would say that most of the time this twist or wave grows out with the bird and corrects itself, it’s when it does not that I will cull. I cull all birds that have a twist in the blade of the comb (where the blade turns to the right or the left) it will breed forward and is undesirable when breeding to the SOP. I will also remove birds for the head shape at this age, if they don’t have a big proud strong head, they are not bred. Vicki posted a photo of one of her pullets not too long ago that showed a great example of a nice Marans head. If we ask her nice I bet she would post it again for us. 

At about a couple months or a bit older you can really see these little beasts personalities blossom and their bodies start to take shape. They change very fast from here to sexual maturity and males can change even more until 1 year of age plus.

I like to start looking for nice open tails and how they carry the tail and present themselves. I take note of birds that have a more pinched tail and watch them grow, if it remains, they are culled from the program. Squirrel tail and roach back are a couple other things a person can see pretty early on and cull for. Wry tail is another, but it is IME, not as easy to spot on a younger bird vs. a bird that is approx. 4-5 months old.

After about 2-3 months of age, I start really watching the plumage color and copper. I watch for things such as edging on the Blue Coppers (BCM breeders need not worry about this) and I watch the copper coming in and the tone of it as well as tone of the blue. BCM breeders would also be watching for the tone of copper and also if the black underfluff has a brownish tint to it. Brownish tinted underfluff that is just not true black is said to be another sign of Wheaten influences.

From here until about 5-6 months of age, I just watch them closely because they do a lot of changing during this time. I look for any white in the hackles of the males specifically. I also look for other things that I may have missed along the way or if the bird is just slow to show any faults or such. This is also the time that eye color changes on both male and female. Dark eyed birds are culled unless they have more good to offer than not, but for the most part I try to keep and breed birds with correct eye color. White in the wing tip that happens in some young Marans, if they have it, should by this time be covered or covering by black. I should say that if it is still there after their first molt it is undesirable and considered a fault for SOP breedings.

Now it’s the wait and see egg color game.

Will come back with more later with an edited post. I also hope that everyone else pops by and discusses what they do and adds to it and points out tons of things I know I missed and didn’t touch on or corrects me if I have misspoken. Also it’s great to get as many opinions as you can because what I might be breeding and looking for may be completely different than what the next person is looking and breeding for in their program.

 WOW! Thanks SO much!! This is super helpful!!! Really nice of you to take the time to write this out for me and others that are learning!! Thank-you VERY much!! 

Yes! I'm taking notes! I know it feels like a broken record to the seasoned breeder but its a gift to those of us new to the breed. Reminds me to not pass on re-explaining something I know to someone new. Thank you!

 

[pinkchick]

I think they are the same bird...... i am voting pullet. But i dont do wheaten marans..... just ameraucanas.

LOL! I didn't even catch that it was the same bird!

 

[Runawaylobster]

WOW! Thanks SO much!! This is super helpful!!! Really nice of you to take the time to write this out for me and others that are learning!! Thank-you VERY much!!

X2 Thankyou!!

 

[ckvchestnut]

Hello everyone! I'm new here and I am embarking on a few projects with the FBCM. I am basically a back yard chicken fancier and have never shown birds etc. My goals are to improve on and maintain the flock's breed quality and to breed a few blues on the side for fun (2 separate flocks). I first acquired my lovely FBCM chicks from a lovely breeder who was right under my nose and didn't even know it! She has been working hard on improving her flock to the French standard. The lines consist of a mix of Davis/Jean/Presley and a line(s) from the Netherlands. The line from the Netherlands is hopefully going to improve the leg feathering and the egg colour. Her Roo was fabulous, almost the size of a turkey! And the hens all had a nice large size, everyone with seemingly really well balanced amounts of copper. It's important to note that while I will be sticking as close as possible to standard for the breed's benefits, so far I am amateur breeder and even more so with this breed. I have and am continuing to read as much as I possibly can on this lovely breed so hopefully some of you won't be too hard on me as I am here to learn from you all!

So I have currently from that flock 8 chicks which are 2 weeks old now. I'm thinking I have possibly 5 or 6 girls and 2-3 boys. I have kept in mind that its hard to sex these guys at a young age, but that some of you are quite good at it I do have 1 clean legged girl or boy (thinking girl) which I won't cull but keep her in my laying pen for eating eggs. So I'll be watching these birds to see who will be my main breeders for the FBCM. They're all well put together so far and have nice heavier feathering on the outer leg as toe.

My other project which some of you may want to bash me for is trying to get a few blues out of it for my keeping and viewing pleasure. Blues are hard to come by in my neck of the woods. At least I think so. I may not have ended up in the right place to find any local blue chicks. But I did acquire 3 nice looking blue splash chicks which are about a week older than my black coppers. However... These splash chicks are from a silver cuckoo Roo and a Blue Copper Hen. My question is, how easily can I breed out the barring on this line to get my solid blue coppers? As of now, the 3 splash chicks look the same and I have no idea on their sex. At 2 and a bit weeks they all have the tales, one has a slight smaller comb but all pale coloured. Anyways so if I have a pullet and breed her to a black copper male, I should have solid blue females and blue cuckoo male offspring correct? If so, can I then breed the solid blue females back to the black copper male and hope for more solid blues and splashes? I know there could be more blacks on the mix. I measly understanding of barring genetics tells me that these splash pullets are barred but the white hides it, so that's why I think I'll get the solid girls.

So on the other hand, on the off chance that I have 3 cockerels, they would not have the barring but would they carry it to their female offspring when crossed with a black copper hen? What would my procedure be? Breed splash cuckoo Roo to black copper hens, hope for blue or splash cockerel male and then breed that to black copper females?

So sorry for the long and confusing post!! Again this line would be for pleasure only and not for mucin into the line that I intend to keep pure! Thanks for any advice offered!