Marans Thread for Posting Pics of Your Eggs, Chicks and Chickens

[AHappychick]

Quote:
"... and never heard of any"

That is so untrue I do not believe that for a second and would have a hard time believing anything that person said.

 

[Germaine_11.20]

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If this had been her answer I would have been perfectly fine. Honest answer. No breed is perfect. It was the untruth that calls everything into question.

 

[onthespot]

All my breeding stock has good feet too. But there have hatched out three that I know of with fused toes. One was the gal that is a quail genetics whiz, her name escapes me right now. Hers was the first. Two weeks later I hatched one, and then one hatched to a gal down by San Diego. No telling who the parents are on those birds because of using different roos and not tracking who laid what egg, much less someone else hatching them and no knowing zip about the parents. It is really hard to figure out I would think without nest trapping every bird, marking every egg, keeping extensive records and hopefully catching the culprit. If it is linked to feathered feet, there is no point in even trying if the standard calls for feathered feet. Just a cost of doing business I guess. Rough go if you buy hatching eggs off ebay and one has a fused toe, or more than one. That REALLY cuts into your useable birds from that batch. I think people should sell larger batches of marans eggs just to give buyers a better shot at a healthy gene pool.

All that copper, I bet if it is a hen, you end up with partridgey looking markings way down the breast and possibley gold shafts on the feathers. If it is a roo, maybe be on the lookout for excessive copper on the breast, possibly carrying wheaten. I said POSSIBLY! I am not downing anyone else's stock. I have hatched out chicks like that and have culled my flock to the best of my ability, accordingly. We are all on a steep learning curve here and whistling in the dark and crossing your fingers behind your back will NOT help anyone improve the breed. I am for full, unabashed disclosure on anything anyone asks. No one even asked and I am STILL disclosing on my flock... that is how strongly I feel about it.

I wouldn't worry about the differing amounts of white on their bellies, that will all moult out. The little chick may have hatched from a pullet egg. You probably will not be able to tell it apart when it grows up. Just treat it like the rest.

 

[Germaine_11.20]

You Patty are wonderful and honest.

I have to say that my best looking Marans have come from you. I just wish I had known how to hatch them out better and got more. You sent a bundle of them too!

Totally my fault there, because they did develop. I was still figuring out how to get them to hatch at that time.

 

[ruth]

I have hatched hundreds of chicks from my flock, which I bought from Jesse Bryant, and have never hatched a fused toe chick. All are feathered legged. Out of every big hatch I do get a wheaten now and then but haven't figured out which pen is producing same. I've only just recently begun marking the eggs so I will know which pen and ultimately which hen/roo combo is producing Wheaten chicks. But, my flock has stayed a pure French Black Copper Marans flock which was purchased from Wade Jeane and has never had any other blood lines mixed with it.

All that said, I've certainly heard of fused toes and would think every other Marans breeder has as well.

 

[amazondoc]

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Don't count on that. Ignorance can be an amazing thing, even amongst people who ought to know better.

 

[Germaine_11.20]

Thank you Ruth,

The Marans still have alot of work to be done, and will have issues. That is why we cull. I truly have no issues with that. Disclosure and honest disclosure makes the difference between breeders who you want to work with and those you never will again.

I think they are a beautiful breed and the work that is going into them is remarkable.

OK movin on!!! Lets hear some good things and great pics of your Marans!

 

[verycherry]

Quote:
I think this is the information you're looking for. I saved it from last time on MCC.

syndactyly = fused toes
ptilopody = feathered feet and toes
brachydactyly = shortened toes

"Syndactyly is a condition in which the third and fourth toes are
fused, usually by continuous webbing between the toes (Figure 6.6).
The extent of webbing varies distally and between toes. In extreme
cases the toes are tightly tied together, and the nail of the fourth
toe may be bent out of its median position making walking difficult.
The condition is usually expressed in both feet. Syndactyly has been
associated with both ptilopody and brachydactyly by several workers
(Davenport, 1909; Danforth, 1919a, 1919b; Jaap, 1939). They proposed
that the same gene was responsible for all three of these conditions
and that modifying genes and genetic background determine the
phenotype of each individual. Davenport's (1909) data showed
syndactyly to be dominant. This would be expected if one of the
dominant shank feathering genes were responsible for it. Danforth
(1929) suggested that both of the dominant shank feathering genes
were able to produce syndactyly. A relationship between these two
traits was further strengthened with the appearance of the single
gene multitrait mutant psp reported by McGibbon and Shackelford (192)
and Smyth (1981) in which syndactyly and ptilopody were shown to be
caused by the same recessive gene.

There probably is more than one genetic type of syndactyly. Two
studies have been made of this trait in clean-legged stock, where
ptilopody genes could not be involved. One study used White Plymouth
Rocks (Warren, 1950) and the other one involved junglefowl stock
(Hollander and Brumbaugh, 1969). In both cases, results from crosses
were difficult to interpret. Warren (1950) found that the normal
parent had a major influence on F1 progeny; he got only 1.8 percent
syndactylism in one group of F1 crosses but 41 percent in another,
syndactyl x syndactyl crosses produced 62 percent affected progeny,
and there were only 11.9 percent affected in the F2 generation. The
comparable results from Hollander and Brumbaugh (1969) were zero, 40
and one percent affected birds. Although Warren (1950) had somewhat
more affected individuals, these two groups may well have been
working with the same genetic complex. Hollander and Brumbaugh (1969)
proposed complementary gene action of a dominant and a recessive
factor along with variable penetrance and expressivity. Warren (1950)
did not suggest a mode of inheritance, but said that there was no
evidence of sex-linkage."

pp. 201-202, Poultry Breeding and Genetics -- Roy D. Crawford,
Elsevier, 1990.

 

[amazondoc]

Quote:
That is not quite true, Ruth. You have said yourself -- Jesse actually got the hens from *Kelvin*, not Wade -- and he got the roosters from a third party, who is *supposed* to have gotten them from Wade. As we all know, "supposed to" and reality is not always the same thing. And then there was some gossip about Jesse adding other hens later, but I don't know anything about that part.

That is NOT to say anything bad about your birds. They may be the best birds in the country -- I dunno. But it's a good idea to keep historical details as accurate as we can!

 

[amazondoc]

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I am supposed to be getting pics of several cockerels this week -- but I can't find my danged camera! If it shows it's little face, I'll post some. I've got both BC and wheaten cockerels that I need to sort through so I can get rid of the extras!