Marek's Disease, Please Help!!

[Tompike]

About seven months ago I got two three month old Americanas from a friend. The one randomly died and the other slowly paralyzed and died after about a month. By time I figured out that it was Marek's and that it was best to put her out of her misery, she died. Now, I have 12 two month old chicks along with my older chickens, but I'm not as worried about them because it mainly gets younger chicks. So yesterday I went out and saw one of the Americanas laying and walking weirdly, like the one that died did. I remembered the other and kept an eye on him. I went out again today and he was fine, then I went back out about half an hour later and he was laying there like he was dead. I went over and picked him up and he was all stiff with his eyes shut like he was dead. Then suddenly his eyes jolted open and his muscles kept spasming. I took him inside, I soaked his feet in warm water with espom salts because his legs were all stiff and swollen. He wouldn't eat anything or drink anything. While I was soaking us feet, every couple of minutes his eyes would jolt open and his while body would twitch, his eyes darting back and forth and head going up and down, making this weird, very loud noise he's never made before. Every time it lasted about 30 seconds and then he'd calm down and his eyes would shut again. When he's on the ground and does it he jumps around and freaks out, bumping into things and hurting himself so I have him in a smaller cafe so he won't move so much and make it worse. I wrapped him in a towel and when he was wrapped up, the spasms wouldn't last as long and were less often, but it's getting late and I can't stay up all night with him. I know there's nothing to do to "fix" him, but is there anything to do to make him more comfortable? He can't walk and the only time he opens his eyes is when the spasms happen. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I have someone who can put him down, but she can't for another few days so I just want to make him comfortable until then, there's no way I'd be able to put him down.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

That's not Marek's....you've got a poisonous toxin on your premises.

Do you have any feed that may have molded? (Aflatoxin can produce convulsions).

Do you have any rat poison he could have gotten into?

Could he have eaten spoiled meat or some other toxin?

Sometimes you can get activated charcoal to bind with a poison, but you'll have to mix it in water and syringe it in. Likely, by the time you've got convulsions, death is near.

Hopefully someone has dealt with toxins and birds personally.

I've linked the Merk's manual and an Avian online vet response below.

LofMc

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/poisonings/overview-of-poisonings-in-poultry

https://www.justanswer.com/bird-vet/7ppuo-chickens-may-ingested-bromethalin-brand-name-tomcat.html

 

[chickengeorgeto]

Botulism poisoning and Mareks disease both present as paralysis.
Water fowl are especially subject to Botulism but chickens can also succumb to it.
Check with the livestock department at your state's Land Grant College and inquire about having a free or low cost necropolis preformed.

 

[Tompike]

If it was in the feed, why would only he be sick? It's not molded or anything so I don't think that's it. The last time I've used rat poison was over a year ago so I'm not sure it's that either. I don't feed them meat either, but two days ago I dropped an egg and he was the first one over to eat it before I could get it, but some others ate it too. I looked at the links and it does seem like either aflatoxin or botulism, but it wouldn't make sense that just he would get it, all the other chickens and ducks would've had access to what he could be eaten, and the other chicks would always follow him around and eat and do what he did. He died last night.

 

[Tompike]

I forget how to go back and edit what I just posted.. I just remembered something that might've caused it. In the pen he was in, there's all these jimson weeds that are poisonous. He could've eaten that. I've been trying to get rid of those plants for years, they always come back the next year even if I pull them all out before they start growing the seeds. I pull them out, I were wack them, I use a tiller to till the soil and kill the roots, but they always come back. But if he would've eaten it, wouldn't the others? I'm not sure if that's it, but that's the only thing I can think of so now I'm going to go and keep pulling them out. Thanks

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I'm sorry for your loss.

I saw in another thread you had confirmation of Marek's in your other bird?

Can you send him necropsy for testing? Since you suspect that he may have eaten Jimson weed, possibly they could test for that?

I had to look it up, but some of the "side effects" from eating/ingesting Jimson weed could be related to what you saw - but there's no way to really know without testing.

I know it won't be much comfort to know that he passed from a toxic weed, but having Marek's ruled out would help you move forward, knowing that you can hopefully remedy any future problems by getting rid of the weeds.

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-921-jimson weed.aspx?activeingredientid=921&activeingredientname=jimson weed

 

[HoldrenFarmgirl]

Have you tried Ground Clear weed killer on the weed? I've had problems for years with thistle all over my garden and poison ivy everywhere else. Last fall I'd had enough and tried ground clear. Nothing came back this year ! (Yeah) . It would be worth a shot to try it. I'd move my animals first for 3 days. (Our vet suggestes this to be safe) . The stuff works wonders where everything else fails. I hope you find out the cause so you don't have anymore issues. Good luck and sorry about your chickens.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I agree with the necropsy when he has passed to see what it was.

Why I'm ruling out Mareks is because of the convulsions. Markes causes slow paralysis and usually the bird starves because they simply can't get to food and water. Or they drop dead and you find them dead in the morning. Or they become unthrifty and slowly waste away.

But fine one day then paralysis with violent convulsions and tremors strongly suggests toxin of some kind.

He may have been the only one to get into whatever or gotten more of it or simply more susceptible.

You can't know what you are battling without the necropsy or testing of some sort. This is a bird I'd definitely figure out what took him as there may be something you can do for the rest of the flock.

Sorry for your frustrations. Others have given good suggestions for the Jimpsom weed.

 

[thunderclast]

I agree with the people who are saying that this is probably some sort of toxin. That is the most likely based on the symptoms you're describing. That said, I would not completely rule out Marek's. Since Marek's hits the nervous system, I personally believe that it could cause convulsions, especially if the chicken isn't digesting or breathing properly (due to partial paralysis, perhaps).

You said "I have 12 two month old chicks along with my older chickens, but I'm not as worried about them because it mainly gets younger chicks." That's not quite true. Marek's symptoms take time to develop and, from what I've read, it's more common for symptoms to show closer to time of lay, say 3-5 months. It would be less common (but entirely possible) for symptoms to show up earlier or later.

Since you know you have had Marek's on the property, you should be aware that ALL of your chickens and ALL future chickens on your property will have Marek's. Were the chicks vaccinated against Marek's? Did you quarantine them for 3 weeks to allow them to gain resistance? If not, it's highly possible that this chicken is showing signs of Marek's.

You can do a home necropsy to check for Marek's. Two good signs of Marek's are: (1) enlarged nerves leading to the legs. These nerves are normally the diameter of a hair or smaller. If they are big like spaghetti, it's Marek's. (2) Tumors on the organs of the chicken, or anywhere in the nervous system are likely Marek's.

Good luck to you! If you chicken isn't getting better soon, I think the kindest thing to do would be cull it.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Ditto with Tomclast
Once you've got Marek's on the property, it is on the property. (But honestly, it was probably there already in wild birds).

The vaccine is "leaky" meaning it doesn't offer full immunity but only prevents tumors from growing in the vaccinated bird. It also doesn't stop all strains, so there is concern that vaccinating is actually producing more virulent strains.

Which does lead to the possibility of a violent Marek's or tumors placed in such a spot as to cause convulsions...though I think toxin more likely for that symptom.

Birds that survive and thrive are your breeders. The industry is now suggesting the best method is to breed Marek resistant birds.

LofMc