Marek's : Lessons Learned the Hard Way

[madamwlf]

I'm so confused about Mareks!!! I just had my Buff Brahma put to sleep because of Mareks on Monday. She came from My Pet Chicken as a day old chick, and she was vaccinated for it. She started showing symptoms of lameness at about 6.5 weeks, and couldn't even walk by 8 weeks, which was when I had her put down at the vets.This was after normal xrays, antibiotics and antinflammatorys. I just can't figure out when/where she might have been exposed, especially since the incubation period is 12 weeks supposedly. I was thinking the vaccine might have given it to her, kinda like polio vaccines can, but if it's the Turkey mareks live virus, I just don't see how that's possible. This was my first batch of chicks ever, so unless she got it from wild birds when they started spending some time outdoors in their run at 3 weeks, I have no clue where she got it. Especially since that would put the time from exposure to symptoms at 3.5 weeks, not 12, and that's if she was exposed to it the very first day they went outside!! Oh well, I suppose I will never know, now I am watching for signs in the remaining 3, although I guess there is really nothing I can do if they do start showing signs!!

I already freaked out because of this and thought my BA had some respiratory illness because of a small crust on her bottom eyelid, so I hurried and bought some Tylan at $60 with shipping!! Turns out it was just missing black pigment on her eyelid...oops....I guess I am over paranoid now. I started thinking I was going to lose them all and questioning everything I'm doing with them!

One thing I would like to point out is my BB never grew as fast as the others, I mean she was about half the size at 8 weeks, and when she ate her crop never got full, I could never even feel it! The other 3 would eat and have bulging crops! Maybe there was something wrong with her from the start, or the vaccine did something to her, I don't know. She was a good eater too, even on her last day. And perky and sweet waaahhh...I miss her...

I've lost 7 birds to the very disease they were vaccinated for: Mareks. And it would have cost me $100 to have further tests done. They all had classic Mareks symptoms. None of my other birds have become sick at all. I believe something happened with their vaccine. Anyway, to the OP I'm sorry to hear about your bird.

 

[leadwolf1]

Everyone is very lucky if none of their other birds get sick. The vaccine is tempermental and needs to be mixed and used correctly. The vets may have thought they knew but there is no way to really know without a necropsy. I'm also sorry that you are unable to find a lab that will do necropsies for a reasonable price. It is truly the best way that we have to get the correct diagnosis.

I was just thinking vitamin deficiency since you say that your chick had stunted growth. All the birds that I have lost to Marek's have been big, healthy birds.

From the time I lost my first Marek's bird to the time of the second was almost 4 months...then, it was months before another. After the start of the hot weather, with stress from heat, I have lost 4 birds over a year old. Once they become carriers, you can lose them at any time...all it takes is a little stess and Marek's just loves stress!

 

[ChicKat]

Hi dancingflowers68--

so very sorry that you lost your chicken to Marek's.

Here is something from the Merck Vet Manual if you haven't read it as of yet:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/203602.htm

It does say that chickens as early as 3-weeks of age can get it. I'm probably the one who put the heads-up out there that the incubation can take 12-weeks. I thought it was from Merck vet manual, but just at this second I'm not seeing it on the page. I believe that the incubation period was 12-weeks on the outside...and that is how long I quarantined my chickens that shared the coop and run with my pullet that died of Marek's. So it could be something like 2 to 12 weeks...for example, and I think I saw an article saying it could be 20-weeks. I'm trying to build a factual page where people can contribute Marek's facts....however, I think that there is a slight problem with the forum....cannot open to build a new page...and I have emailed Rob (Nifty Chicken the forum founder) about it. After that quarantine period, I began integration with my other chickens. Both "roommates" of my Marek's chicken are thriving. I hope that in a while you can say the same about the rest of your flock. Don't get discouraged by this loss....(easy to say I know.)

Here is another quote from the Meck manual:

Once the virus is introduced into a chicken flock, regardless of vaccination status, infection spreads quickly from bird to bird. Infected chickens continue to be carriers for long periods and act as sources of infectious virus. Shedding of infectious virus can be reduced, but not prevented, by prior vaccination. Unlike serotypes 1 and 2, which are highly contagious, turkey herpesvirus is not readily transmissible among chickens (although it is easily transmitted among turkeys, its natural host). Attenuated serotype 1 strains vary greatly in their transmissibility among chickens; the most highly attenuated are not transmitted. Marek’s disease virus is not vertically transmitted. The incidence of Marek’s disease is quite variable in commercial flocks and depends on strain and dose of virus, age at exposure, maternal antibody, host gender and genetics, other concurrent diseases, and several environmental factors including stress.
My understanding of that, is there is more Marek's out there than people realize.... One vet too has said that there are two kinds of flocks: one that has had Marek's and one that will get Marek's.

The best thing you can do for your chickens now is to see that as little stress as possible comes their way. One long ago thread here said that the Marek's vaccination puts the Turkey Herpes virus in a race in the chick's body with the other Marek's virus----and if the non-turkey wins, the chick (even though vaccinated) will get Marek's

I also fully understand your concern.....If I saw a feather blowing in the wind from the quarantine pen toward the pen with my other chickens...I had a hissy fit..... hang in there and best of luck.

ETA - I just re-read the chick care that you gave your little ones....and it sounds like you did everything right beyond all expectations.

ALSO a heads up--- I recently read that the supposed first sign of Marek's is the chick that is smaller and doesn't grow as large. I'm off to give my chickies a weigh-in today. :O)

 

[Ridgerunner]

I've lost 7 birds to the very disease they were vaccinated for: Mareks.  And it would have cost me $100 to have further tests done.  They all had classic Mareks symptoms.  None of my other birds have become sick at all.  I believe something happened with their vaccine.  Anyway, to the OP I'm sorry to hear about your bird.

I searched for Maryland fees for Necropsy. The fee list I found was dated 2006, so it may be out of date, but it said avian pets cost $200 with carcass disposal fees additional, a small charge per pound. With poultry, that would be negligible. Farm poultry was No Charge for the necropsy.

In Arkansas, the cost was $45 for the poultry necropsy with a $15 carcass disposal fee. I'd heard it was only $10 but that's not what I found when I looked it up. This fee list was dated 2008, so maybe it has been reduced, but I don't think so.

The cost can vary widely from state to state and it can depend on how the bird is classified. You might discuss with them how they are classifying your chickens.

ChicKat, when you build your fact page, you might comment on both the widely varying costs for necropsy per state and to be careful how your bird is classified. Just a thought.

 

[ChicKat]

Ridgerunner--

As always, brilliant advice. Thanks, I will.

BTW, one of your olden-days posts helped me with my hatch my chicks back in may. Just goes to show you--unbeknownst to you -- you are helping and reassuring the forum. ;O)

 

[dancingflower68]

Hi dancingflowers68--

so very sorry that you lost your chicken to Marek's.

Here is something from the Merck Vet Manual if you haven't read it as of yet:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/203602.htm

It does say that chickens as early as 3-weeks of age can get it. I'm probably the one who put the heads-up out there that the incubation can take 12-weeks. I thought it was from Merck vet manual, but just at this second I'm not seeing it on the page. I believe that the incubation period was 12-weeks on the outside...and that is how long I quarantined my chickens that shared the coop and run with my pullet that died of Marek's. So it could be something like 2 to 12 weeks...for example, and I think I saw an article saying it could be 20-weeks. I'm trying to build a factual page where people can contribute Marek's facts....however, I think that there is a slight problem with the forum....cannot open to build a new page...and I have emailed Rob (Nifty Chicken the forum founder) about it. After that quarantine period, I began integration with my other chickens. Both "roommates" of my Marek's chicken are thriving. I hope that in a while you can say the same about the rest of your flock. Don't get discouraged by this loss....(easy to say I know.)

Here is another quote from the Meck manual:

Once the virus is introduced into a chicken flock, regardless of vaccination status, infection spreads quickly from bird to bird. Infected chickens continue to be carriers for long periods and act as sources of infectious virus. Shedding of infectious virus can be reduced, but not prevented, by prior vaccination. Unlike serotypes 1 and 2, which are highly contagious, turkey herpesvirus is not readily transmissible among chickens (although it is easily transmitted among turkeys, its natural host). Attenuated serotype 1 strains vary greatly in their transmissibility among chickens; the most highly attenuated are not transmitted. Marek’s disease virus is not vertically transmitted. The incidence of Marek’s disease is quite variable in commercial flocks and depends on strain and dose of virus, age at exposure, maternal antibody, host gender and genetics, other concurrent diseases, and several environmental factors including stress.
My understanding of that, is there is more Marek's out there than people realize.... One vet too has said that there are two kinds of flocks: one that has had Marek's and one that will get Marek's.

The best thing you can do for your chickens now is to see that as little stress as possible comes their way. One long ago thread here said that the Marek's vaccination puts the Turkey Herpes virus in a race in the chick's body with the other Marek's virus----and if the non-turkey wins, the chick (even though vaccinated) will get Marek's

I also fully understand your concern.....If I saw a feather blowing in the wind from the quarantine pen toward the pen with my other chickens...I had a hissy fit..... hang in there and best of luck.

ETA - I just re-read the chick care that you gave your little ones....and it sounds like you did everything right beyond all expectations.

ALSO a heads up--- I recently read that the supposed first sign of Marek's is the chick that is smaller and doesn't grow as large. I'm off to give my chickies a weigh-in today. :O)

Wow ChicKat! Thanks for all that info...it makes alot more sense to me now, and it is certainly probable that she could have contracted it early. One thing I realize I did at about 2 weeks was put a little perch branch in their laundry basket that I used to put them in while I cleaned the brooder out. I didn't wash it first

so it's probably my fault. On a brighter note, my other 3 are doing great and no sign of stumbling around, perfect big girls. I'll be glad when 12 weeks in up and I can relax a bit about it! Thanks for all that info. I realized when I ordered my chicks that lots of things can happen and sometimes chicks die, but Mareks was one thing I crossed off my list of worries because I was having them vaccinated!! I never thought much about it til Peaches got sick, then I started researching all possibilities. At least now I am more informed. I do plan on having more chickens when we move to the country in the next few years, but I will only bring in vaccinated chicks, or vaccinate them myself if I hatch any! Well, my babies are waiting for their yummies so I gotta go!!! Cheers, Deanna

 

[BlossomSilkies]

I was surprised to see how this thread has gained so much momentum and has so many replies.

My exact point in starting this conversation is summed up right here:

My understanding of that, is there is more Marek's out there than people realize.... One vet too has said that there are two kinds of flocks: one that has had Marek's and one that will get Marek's.

Don't be foolish thinking that YOUR flock doesn't have it or couldn't possibly be exposed to it. With the vax being so inexpensive, less than $20 for a 1000 does vial...well let's just say now that I know better, it's a no-brainer.

 

[PetRock]

I do want to let California residents know that UC Davis will do a free necropsy on a backyard chicken. Here is a list of steps from one of my friends who has submitted chicks to them:


1. http://cahfs.ucdavis.edu
2. Click on Submission Forms
3. Click on Backyard Flock Submittion Forms
4. Fill out everything the best you can (I think all they need to know is your info and the chicks info. I didn't put a vets name.)
5. Print out, sign and put in a plastic bag ziploc
6. Double bag the chick (I used two ziplocs)
7. Put an ice pack in with it.
8. FedEx recommended for shipping but do not tell them that you are shipping a dead chicken.

 

[dancingflower68]

Thanks PetRock..that's very helpful...Should it be overnight shipping?

 

[PetRock]

Thanks PetRock..that's very helpful...Should it be overnight shipping?

The faster it gets there the better. You can even drive to the lab in Davis or the one in Turlock. Since you are in Manteca, the Turlock one is close. If your bird is still alive, they will cull it for you and do the necropsy.