Mareks Vaccine

[Nambroth]

It is supposed to be day one. I am sure that my next info will have people say no but, to me a little late is better than no vaccine. I have been told so many things and by different people from vet, hatchery people, friends, poultry business people some say only at day one which given them the best chance to you can give it to them later.

Day one is the best, hands down, from all the research out there. That said, there seems to be no harm in doing a second vaccination later on as long as the birds are otherwise healthy and have good vigor.

Doing a vaccination "better late than never" won't hurt (as long as the bird is healthy), but it also won't help IF the bird has already been exposed to Marek's. Since Marek's takes a while to show up, it's sometimes impossible to know if exposure has occurred or not, unless you are very certain your flock is Marek's free.

Because there are variables, people often give different answers to this. The takeaway is this: Try to vaccinate properly at hatch (before they are 36 hours old) for best results, then it's also ideal to keep them completely quarantined until they are at least 3 weeks old. Some people think longer is better, which it might be... it's hard to know for sure.

 

[ochochicas]

Recently I've been doing a lot of research on Marek's and the vaccine. There seems to still be a "failure rate" with the vaccine and some chicks will die even with the vaccine, although at a lower rate.

After vaccinating 3 dozen day old chicks over the weekend, I have my own theory. I'm honestly wondering if the chicks that get sick after being vaccinated were actually vaccinated at all. Those little guys are very hard to handle. I had to give two doses to roughly 6% of my chicks since the first dose went into the feathers/down. Granted, I don't have a lot of experience handling day old chicks, but I do have over a dozen years experience in the veterinary field so I'm not a novice regarding vaccines. At this point, I don't think 100% of the vaccinated chicks from the hatcheries (or anywhere else) are properly vaccinated. Just my thoughts, but they could be valid.

 

[Nambroth]

Recently I've been doing a lot of research on Marek's and the vaccine. There seems to still be a "failure rate" with the vaccine and some chicks will die even with the vaccine, although at a lower rate.

After vaccinating 3 dozen day old chicks over the weekend, I have my own theory. I'm honestly wondering if the chicks that get sick after being vaccinated were actually vaccinated at all. Those little guys are very hard to handle. I had to give two doses to roughly 6% of my chicks since the first dose went into the feathers/down. Granted, I don't have a lot of experience handling day old chicks, but I do have over a dozen years experience in the veterinary field so I'm not a novice regarding vaccines. At this point, I don't think 100% of the vaccinated chicks from the hatcheries (or anywhere else) are properly vaccinated. Just my thoughts, but they could be valid.

I think you are right. They have a machine that they hold each chick against that vaccinates them (rapid fire, so to speak). In this way it is more accurate and get a better vaccination into them than someone at home that is not experienced with chick vaccination might be. On the other hand... surely some are accidentally missed or improperly vaccinated now and again. There is always a margin for error when it comes to this, unfortunately.
Here's an image of how many (not all) hatcheries with large volumes vaccinate:
http://www.cobb-vantress.com/images/default-source/press-releases/2-5-b.jpg?sfvrsn=0

Having not seen this first hand, I can only guess that it is very accurate as long as the chick is held properly. But with everything living.. well, maybe sometimes that's not quite what happens?

 

[ochochicas]

I have to admit, it looks like hatchery chicks have a rough go even before they are out the door. Thanks for the link.

 

[Akiandchick]

we don't have any symptoms of Mareks but still want some advice. My current flock has not been vaccinated but I'm feeling uneasy after everything I've been reading about it. I'm getting some new chicks from a hatchery soon and am unsure if I should order it for them or order it online so I can do them and current flock myself. Or not do it at all. Help me decide

 

[ochochicas]

we don't have any symptoms of Mareks but still want some advice. My current flock has not been vaccinated but I'm feeling uneasy after everything I've been reading about it. I'm getting some new chicks from a hatchery soon and am unsure if I should order it for them or order it online so I can do them and current flock myself. Or not do it at all. Help me decide

If you are getting hatchery chicks, the easiest thing to do is have them vaccinated at the hatchery. It is more convenient and likely less expensive than doing it yourself.

If you do decide to order your vaccines, it will cost you a minimum of $20 plus $10 for shipping. You will also need to buy syringes and needles for mixing the vaccine and injecting the birds. None of the supplies are very expensive. You also need to be able to restrain and inject your chicks. Some people are squeamish around needles and won't be able to do it.

Instead of buying from a hatchery, you might want to consider buying from a private breeder that vaccinates.

One more note, the vaccine is supposed to be given before the chicks turn 36 hours old. However, there is a lot of new information out there that indicates that vaccinating later (around 3 weeks) is more effective. Some studies have shown that vaccinating at 1 day and again at 3 weeks is best. Bottom line is that you should vaccinate as early as possible before the chicks have a chance to be exposed to the virus. They should be isolated in a non-contaminated area for at least 3 weeks until their immune system has a chance to build antibodies against the virus. If they are exposed to the virus before they have a chance to develop good immunity, they could develop Marek's and die from it despite being vaccinated.

I hope this helps! Not everyone believes in vaccinating, but I for one wish I would have started sooner. Marek's is very common where I live. Having your pullets die off one by one from a disease that can be "prevented" by using a vaccine is devastating.

 

[seminolewind]

Ocho, hatcheries also vaccinate eggs at 18 days. Cool huh?

Maybe I should do mine again. I worry that I injected the fuzz. How awful!

 

[ochochicas]

Ocho, hatcheries also vaccinate eggs at 18 days. Cool huh?

Maybe I should do mine again. I worry that I injected the fuzz. How awful!

I had DH hold a couple of chicks, and he had vaccine on his hand when we were done. LOL It took a couple of tires to get my technique down. It won't hurt to give them a booster around 23 days if you have more vaccine.

Do most hatcheries vaccinate the embryos at day 18? I assumed most of them only vaccinate when the request is made by the purchaser.

This is the article I am referring to. Sorry I'm a science geek. My Bachelors is in Zoology and I worked in research and the veterinary field for years. Knowledge is power - I'm trying to learn everything I can about this disease so I can help my birds stay healthy. (If I could get my mortality rate down to 1.9% I'd be a happy camper. Right now I'm at 36%...and counting).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2643530/

RESULTS

Better protection against MD by revaccination in field trials.​

The rate of mortality from MD on the experimental farm had ranged from 11.7 to 18.5% in different houses in the year before this study, when vaccination with cell-associated Fc126 was applied. Chickens from four flocks with 2,064 chickens each were immunized with the Fc126 or CVI988 MD vaccine at 1 day of age or were boosted at 7 days of age. Thirty-six unvaccinated chickens were housed with each vaccinated flock to indicate the degree of contamination and the virulence of the field MDV strains on the farm. The rates of mortality for each unvaccinated group ranged from 33.3 to 36.1% in the different experimental houses, indicating that the rate of contamination with pathogenic MDV was heavy during the trials. The results of the trials showed that revaccination with Fc126 significantly reduced the rate of mortality from MD from 9.7% to 3.4% (P < 0.005), and revaccination with CVI988 gave the best protection (P < 0.005), with rates of mortality from MD of 1.9% among chickens revaccinated with CVI988 and 6.1% among the chickens in the flock that received a single vaccination (Table (Table22).

 

[ochochicas]

Yesterday I vaccinated my new chicks and gave boosters to the 4 week olds. It took an hour to do 37 of them (part of the time was catching the older ones since they were not cooperative). The older ones had tough skin. I was surprised; it looks so delicate! Turkens are by far the easiest since you can see what you are poking! LOL I also did a handful of silkies. They are so tiny it was very difficult. I found using a shorter needle really helps. I'm going to have to order some more small needles this week for future use.

The silkies are really cute though...too bad I'm not keeping them.

 

[informative]

I did the vaccine at 1 day and 3 weeks and I can't say if it worked or not, but I lost 5/7 pullets from opportunistic ailments, enteritis, and one-eye infections. With the enteritis, I pickup up 2 dead bodies and 1 the next night and all 3 looked great the night before and as I picked them up, a massive amount of blood came out.

I will 2x vaccinate this batch. I'm still gowning and scrubbing before I open the bator to turn them and will during 3 weeks . Anyone have a good tip for how to hold them and which way to point the needle?

I hold the chick in my palm of my offhand (left is off for me as a righty) fingers spread and with the neck draped through the index and thumb. This allows me to use the (other three) pinky, ring and middle fingers to grasp the bird (a few are squirmers who flap a lot so be sure to grasp the wings as well on those) and I can use the thumb and index to pinch the top of the neck area to lift it up a tiny bit. This neck skin is then poked gently with the needle tip (I angle it in from the right side as a righty with the needle at about a 70 degree angle almost flat sideways) and I carefully squeeze off the 0.2 ml of dose. Then I set the needle down and rub the area with my fingers to soothe while apologizing to the bird before quickly returning him to his brooder. I prefer day 2 for vacs because they seem so super fragile on day 1 and I like to make sure they are all drinking and eating first because drinking/eating is a nice way for them to soothe after the trauma of being vac'd.

Losing 5 of 7 in a short time is extraordinary - you should review that case with a knowledgeable local expert closely and find out exactly what happened. That should almost never happen unless there is a serious illness in play and guessing at what it is should be a last resort