Mareks?

[microchick]

Yes, I wonder if maybe somehow my original flock of birds are carriers and transmitted it to these guys. But more likely these 2 got it from where I had gotten them from as younglings. Everyone else seems fine, when would they typically start to show symptoms if they are going to? Or does it really just depend?

I had one bird develop scissor paralysis at 9 weeks and have to be culled. She was the only one who did that. The rest of my birds all survived the initial infection and began showing symptoms at one year to approximately 18 months of age. When they began showing signs of secondary Marek's Disease it was terminal at that point and I either found them dead or they had to be culled due to suffering.

I'm not all that familiar with ALV and had to look it up myself. Seems as though it can be passed via the egg barrier so indeed your chicks may have come infected with it. The question is whether or not the others are uninfected or resistant at this point.

As for MD, it is possible to breed for resistance. I'm not sure about ALV.

I've attached the article I skimmed through about ALV.
https://layinghens.hendrix-genetics...es-black_chicken-brown-chicken-white-chicken/

I wish chickens came with a label that said what they were susceptible to when we buy them. As it is, it's a crap shoot. I bought my birds from a private breeder who reassured me that they were resistant to MD. Well. Surprise. You pay your money and you take your chances.

 

[2ndTink]

I have 3 baby silkies in the brooder in the house, and they are pretty close to going outside and starting the integration process. But I am terrified of dooming them. However, these 2 sick amerecaunas also spend the night in the house. A different room, but on the same floor in the house. So I do think testing will help settle that anxiety on welcoming them outside. I will feel oh so guilty if I bring them out and integrate as usual and then they get symptoms and suffer from this. Maybe if by any chance the big girls are negative I could sleep better starting that process. Do you have any knowledge to share on ALV? I also have a younger flock that I hatched (no vaccine) they started the integration process with my main flock but they are brutal so it's short supervised periods. I was thinking of testing one of them and one of the main girls. Do you have separate flocks for the positive and negatives or are they all together and just did not get it? I have a barn they all live in but a separate small coop outside for the younger ones. I was told these 2 were vaccinated, but I don't fully believe them. Those 3 little silkies I just mentioned are from the same person. This is long already so bare with me.
I got 4 from her at 3 weeks old, 2 passed away days after getting them and I assumed it was coccidiosis because I lost a hen from my original flock to it shortly after. But now I am rethinking maybe it was either mareks or alv. They were fine one day and then lethargic and passed within a few days. She got them from a hatchery and I got them at 3 weeks old. I hope that all makes sense my kids are chatting with me as I type this.

If I miss any of your questions let me know. These are my opinions and my experiences, every flock and strain of Mareks is different, read everything you can about Mareks and ALV. I sent you an article on them through the messages, it is really good and was shared with me when my flock tested positive. I had a similar situation, existing flock of hens, 6 wk old chicks, and 1 and 2 week old chicks, none vaccinated. I vaccinated the Saturday of the week I got the Mareks results back. The vaccine may not help at that point, it seems there isn't data, but it also seems everyone agrees it doesn't hurt.

#1 baby silkies: per what I've read, the virus can travel clothes, hair, breeze, everything/ everywhere, being in another room, it's still likely they've been exposed. I would vaccinate these chicks, give them good nutrition, skullcap, probiotics.

#2 testing: if this helps your anxiety, 100% test!

#3 ALV knowledge: just the article I shared and the little bit of info from my friend who had it in her flock.

#4 do I have separate flocks: not exactly. I was as careful as I could be between my outside chickens and my inside chicks in the brooder. Once they are outside, I have my grow outs about 70 feet from my unvaccinated Mareks positive/ exposed silkies. Mareks can definitely travel that distance and I wear the same barn boots to all coops. My layers are in two other coops but I was going between my silkies and layers all the time before I knew it was Mareks and my layers tested negative after all that. Super confusing. I still have my layers and grow outs apart from my silkies, but I have put some of my vaccinated grow out silkies next to my Mareks flock. I'm not far enough into this journey to know how this will go, I think I may test a few birds this fall just to see whats going on and if my vaccinated silkies and vaccinated layers are fighting it off or now carrying it.

With ALV, you could test every bird and cull or separate out the positive ones, I have a contact for a lab that tests that much cheaper (not PCR).

3 weeks old seems early for a Mareks loss, but it can happen, and typically ALV won't cause losses until POL.

 

[Eggsandbeyond]

Where can I find Chinese skullcap do I grow it or can I find a tincture in the meantime? Do I give it orally?
Is it safe to say I need to just end these 2 suffering? They are alert and eating and drinking and try to get around. But if they are suffering and I'm just prolonging the inevitable I hate to make them suffer longer than they already have been. One day they'll seem to improve the slightest but I doubt they'll ever walk again and I keep hoping they'll just pass on their own over night but they are eating drinking etc as normal.

 

[2ndTink]

Where can I find Chinese skullcap do I grow it or can I find a tincture in the meantime? Do I give it orally?
Is it safe to say I need to just end these 2 suffering? They are alert and eating and drinking and try to get around. But if they are suffering and I'm just prolonging the inevitable I hate to make them suffer longer than they already have been. One day they'll seem to improve the slightest but I doubt they'll ever walk again and I keep hoping they'll just pass on their own over night but they are eating drinking etc as normal.

Oof, super tough call on culling. My gut is that you are correct, they will not recover. In my experience they will eventually hit a point where there's no doubt they need culled. I don't have the heart to do it sooner, but in reality, once you see them not able to move well, you would not he wrong to cull them

Here's the skullcap I got. It's 15% right now.

https://www.vitacost.com/oregons-wild-harvest-skullcap-herbal-supplement

 

[Eggsandbeyond]

Oof, super tough call on culling. My gut is that you are correct, they will not recover. In my experience they will eventually hit a point where there's no doubt they need culled. I don't have the heart to do it sooner, but in reality, once you see them not able to move well, you would not he wrong to cull them

Here's the skullcap I got. It's 15% right now.

https://www.vitacost.com/oregons-wild-harvest-skullcap-herbal-supplement

How do I administer the capsules? in their food or water? I'm going to order it. I decided to use up the 2 tests I have just to put my mind at ease. Will send out Monday since it's a weekend now the labs closed. Idek about ALV but would like to test for that too. Still trying to wrap my head around mareks. My dad came over and helped me cull the two that have been sick for 2 weeks. I am still a mess. I sat with them after I responded to you earlier and really watching them I felt guilty for having them suffer that long. The pullet was squinting and seemed uncomfortable. The roo would try to walk and fall on his face. Although they were eating and drinking that's no fair life for a chicken. They were only going to go down hill so I had to make the call. It was quick and they were together the entire time so at least there is that. Sometimes I hate having animals and being so close with them all. These are our pets after all. I will update again when I get the tests from 2 of my other flock. Fingers crossed for some good news...

 

[Eggsandbeyond]

How do I administer the capsules? in their food or water? I'm going to order it. I decided to use up the 2 tests I have just to put my mind at ease. Will send out Monday since it's a weekend now the labs closed. Idek about ALV but would like to test for that too. Still trying to wrap my head around mareks. My dad came over and helped me cull the two that have been sick for 2 weeks. I am still a mess. I sat with them after I responded to you earlier and really watching them I felt guilty for having them suffer that long. The pullet was squinting and seemed uncomfortable. The roo would try to walk and fall on his face. Although they were eating and drinking that's no fair life for a chicken. They were only going to go down hill so I had to make the call. It was quick and they were together the entire time so at least there is that. Sometimes I hate having animals and being so close with them all. These are our pets after all. I will update again when I get the tests from 2 of my other flock. Fingers crossed for some good news...

I hope they're finally at peace..... beautiful and tough. Will be deeply missed.

 

[2ndTink]

How do I administer the capsules? in their food or water? I'm going to order it. I decided to use up the 2 tests I have just to put my mind at ease. Will send out Monday since it's a weekend now the labs closed. Idek about ALV but would like to test for that too. Still trying to wrap my head around mareks. My dad came over and helped me cull the two that have been sick for 2 weeks. I am still a mess. I sat with them after I responded to you earlier and really watching them I felt guilty for having them suffer that long. The pullet was squinting and seemed uncomfortable. The roo would try to walk and fall on his face. Although they were eating and drinking that's no fair life for a chicken. They were only going to go down hill so I had to make the call. It was quick and they were together the entire time so at least there is that. Sometimes I hate having animals and being so close with them all. These are our pets after all. I will update again when I get the tests from 2 of my other flock. Fingers crossed for some good news...

as hard as it seems, you'll get through this.

My chickens are hit and miss on eating the skullcap so I have done several things. Mixed in scrambled eggs (bad reviews by most of my girls ), mixed in with a little feed with an olive oil drizzle to get it to stick (mixed reviews by the flock), make a mash with their feed and sprinkle the skullcap in and stir it up, this seems to be the best received. If the one I'm specifically wanting to take it is refusing to voluntarily eat it, I've either popped a capsule down their gullet or opened a capsule, mixed in a little water to make a slurry and used a syringe into their mouth.

Don't feel guilty, you are learning about this heartbreaking disease and you had hope for your birds. They knew you tried everything you could.

This lab has ELISA ALV testing, cheaper than PCR if you want to test the whole flock and separate the pos / neg ALV birds.

https://www.gapoultrylab.org/

 

[Eggsandbeyond]

I had to put a third hen down for having symptoms. One of my original girls. She got bad very fast. I now have another hen with a swollen mass below her eye. One eye is fine One is swollen shut it happened within 2 days. Could this be another symptom or sign of mareks or alv? Or maybe this is unrelated? Idk how to proceed, I try to give my birds any chance I can. If I can save them I will do anything possible to. If not, I don't want them to suffer.