Meat bird pics, or who says cornish x won't eat grass??

[Harp Turkey Ranch]

Oh yeah and I forgot to add hat the grasses to achieve the most nutrition gain out of them would need to be cereal grain types (wheat,rye,oat) these are the grasses that science has proven to have all the health benefits in them compared to more the standard grasses.

 

[Steve_of_sandspoultry]

Quote:
Actually, chickens can absorb plenty of nutrients from grasses (for monogastrics anyway) due to the size of their cecae. The cecum, in a horse or chicken for example, works similarly to the rumen of a ruminant animal. Specialized bacteria break down the cellulose in grasses, and the animal can digest the by-products of this breakdown, as well as the bacteria themselves. At least that's how I remember it from my animal nutrition course at the local cow college!

How else do you think the whole "pastured poultry" set-up would work? Chickens on pasture require as much as 50% LESS (grain-based) feed, depending on who you talk to. These chickens are not 50% skinnier by any means, though they may have a slower growth rate.

Sorry to rant, but I've seen this comment made before and I hate to see misinformation spread around on BYC, especially by a commercial poultry producer! (just making the assumption based on your name)

I agree 100% they get plenty of nutrients from grass and greens. We grow extra to feed to the birds and you can tell the difference in the feed bill when the cover crops are running low and they don't get as much.

Steve in NC

 

[willheveland]

Quote:
according to several experts, on prime legumes and optimum growth periods, Chickens can eat up to 30% of their calories in all the varied, living grasses, other plants, insects, etc., that they can find.

I have never heard a pastured poultry grower claiming to save 50% on his feed bill and getting good results. More like 15-25% at tops.

Actually the pastured birds that are on the grass most of their lives free ranging are usually quite a bit smaller then that of one that is grown in confinement. A person can get better results in a chicken tractor or pasture pen, but that is still a form of cage raising.

I'll try and find the study I read a few years ago on the pastured chickens actually expel more energy and calories foraging then they actually consume. Now this might not be true in chicken tractors as they are confined to one spot, but it is true with free ranging or day ranging chickens.

Sorry to rant, but I've seen this comment made before and I hate to see misinformation spread around on BYC, especially by a commercial poultry producer! (just making the assumption based on your name)

This is not mis information as they don't get it from the grasses as much as they do the bugs,grubs,worms,larvae eggs and legumes.

The point of pastured poultry is the freedom of the birds. They can forage for a treat. They can run and fly and get sunshine. They can do what ever a chicken wants to do in the day time. Which in return makes the muscles work more and then makes the meat taste better. What little they pick up from foraging goes in to the taste as well. Its an ideal on how a bird lives, and helps maintain the lands naturally with their great fertilizers and they even spread it too.

There is no such thing as a grass fed chicken.

Now on turkeys all this would be true on the feed bills and what not but chickens just are not quite that efficient.​

Not to jump in on your party but they do expel more foraging than they can consume. One reason I like using tractors more than freeranging for meatbirds. Also why I choose a breed(cornish-X) that tolerates more confinement.
I do feel that egglayers should be freeranged but not meatbirds.

I wouldn't say that worked muscles are going to make the meat taste better because taste is a preference.It may make it taste different and some may or may not like that.I would say worked muscles make it tougher in texture. jmho

Will

 

[Harp Turkey Ranch]

Not to jump in on your party but they do expel more foraging than they can consume.

Exactly, that is why they don't get much out of it, and one must supplement with a higher protein level in their feed to free range them on grass and get the same results, might not be as true with tractors ?? I don't know about that, but can tell you one thing, that there is no real savings in the feed bill to get excited about when you free range a broiler on grass, except you have a healthier bird and better lands.

That is why free ranged pastured birds cost more as it cost more to raise them in the long run and takes alot more work too. But you do get a way healthier bird and all the other benefits as well.

I agree 100% they get plenty of nutrients from grass and greens. We grow extra to feed to the birds and you can tell the difference in the feed bill when the cover crops are running low and they don't get as much.

Yes on adult breeders that are in a pen or confided will get more benefits from the grasses then the ones that are out running to forage for it. To grow a meat bird of any kind with good results on a free range/day range basis, they will need to be supplemented a high protein diet to gain any kind of weight in the time frame.

We grow everything on the grass here with no cages or tractors and I can tell you that in the grow season we go through 8-9 Tons of feed per 1,000 chickens and 10-11 tons of feed for the turkeys and if there was any way possible to grow a chicken on the land and save any food we are all ears. Granted if we raised them on the bare ground we would go through more feed.

This year we are actually keeping very detailed records on feed rates starting in Jan and ending in October for the chickens this year. Even keeping details of what forage they have and how much is consumed. To just see what we can plant and help save on the feed and try and grow more of our own feeds here. So far from last few years the best for us has been the clover and rye or wheat grass mixed. But the rye has to stay low and with young fresh growth on it to stay palatable for the birds to consume it. and the bugs that mixture creates is incredible.​

 

[Steve_of_sandspoultry]

We grow everything on the grass here with no cages or tractors and I can tell you that in the grow season we go through 8-9 Tons of feed per 1,000 chickens and 10-11 tons of feed for the turkeys and if there was any way possible to grow a chicken on the land and save any food we are all ears. Granted if we raised them on the bare ground we would go through more feed.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=166166&p=2

There is a reason he is gobbling all the time. Ours gobble to new people on the farm. They gobble when the dog or cat goes in front of their pen. They gobble at strange noises. They gobble sometimes to just gobble. The most gobbling is when another tom is out side of the pen harassing them.

I built 3-4' walls on the sides of their pens so they can't see out the sides of their breeding pens. This has helped out alot with all the gobbling.

Do you have cages and pens or not? One thread you don't and quote feed usage and on another you do have pens?​

 

[Brunty_Farms]

I've seen this topic come up before and have kept to myself, as a "grass-fed" producer you would like to think your chickens are getting 50% of their diet on pasture but it very rarely happens and there are a lot of factors that apply. Another thing is you can't rely on research as there is a lot of on-going research right now with how poultry establish nutrition with what they find on pasture. Many of which have been proven to be wrong with current research.

What I do know is like someone already stated chickens fall into a category called Monogastric digestive systems which they do contain a cecum. Most people understand how the food passes through the crop, gizzard, small intestine ect. However most do not know how and where minerals, vitamins, carbs ect are absorbed and when.

In the small intestine soluble carbohydrates are absorbed, along with minerals, vitamins, fats and proteins. Insoluble carboyhdrates which are not so easily digested (grass) as well as any undigested soluble carboyhdrates, are then passed into the fementative vat of the cecum.

Animals with a monogastric digestive system do pocess the enzymes to break down the bonds between soluble sugars/fats/carbs ect (grains). But they do NOT pocess the enzymes to break down the different bondings between the glucose molecules in structual carbs (grass).

Animals such as chickens or poultry have evolved to develop symbiotic relationships with hundreds of different species of microorganisms that DO pocess the enzymes capable of breaking down this particular bond, thereby making the food available to both the microorganisms (bugs) and the host (chickens).

These bugs are found in the cecum and the relationship they have with the chicken is very unstable and change with the seasons. The actual diets of the chicken is what determines what kind of bugs that live in the cecum and some bugs are more capable of breaking down glucose molecules than others. This is why you have such a wide spectrum of results of pastured poultry or grass fed poultry. The bugs vary from state to state... pasture to pasture.... ect. So chickens do absorb plenty of nutrients from grasses if they have the adequate microorganisms in there cecum. However like stated by harp bugs and legumes are superior to grasses.... typically your legumes are alfalfa and ladino clover and if this is planted in your fields you can feed a 11-12 % protein to layers and still achieve maximum results.

But research is still ongoing on how much nutrients they actually consume.... however most of us know that we do notice a change in texture in meat... color in eggs... and a decrease in feed. So to say they consume no or little nutrients doesn't make sense... it seriously depends on how nutritious your pasture is... is the grass tender with small shoots? OR is it rough with stemy tall shoots? The leafier the plant... the better. Obviously the amount of insects plays a huge role in how much feed is decreased.... which chickens have no hard time digesting.

One thing to note is chickens that are grass-fed... (this is a term used in France to define the "freedom rangers" many use in the 'Label Rouge' system today... the term is defined by "chickens are able to conume as much grass as they want").... have many nutrient benefits from being grasss fed. All of which show less saturated fat, higher levels of vitamin A,D and K. Also shows higher levels of Beta Carotine, CLA, and small amounts of many others.

Grass in general is very low in calories so to get any benefit from it chickens must consume mass quanities of grass. If you raise broilers in a tractor they get the most benefit from the grass rather than free ranging.

 

[Harp Turkey Ranch]

Well said Jeff !!!

Hopefully one day someone does figure it out and finds a way to save up to 50% of feed that will be great !!




Yes, Steve we have Breeding pens for the poultry that is breeding to keep them bred true. My post stated through the grow season,not breeding season.

 

[willheveland]

You are awesome Jeff,totally awesome.

I wondered when you were going to jump in. You been slacking lately. Will

 

[farmgirlie1031]

Quote:
No, I have a purebred Cornish and want to make my own Cornish X. I know X's won't breed true.

 

[Homesteading_Bound]

They look Healthy....I agree....nice strong legs...