Meat chick mortality rate?

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

I have to disagree with your statement AgroUrica. If you have any losses after the first week or so, you have done something to cause it. These birds just don't die because of their breed. It may be nutritional or environmental or a combination, but there is always a reason.

I agree with BRF. We have a batch of 50 broilers that are 7 weeks old today, we have not lost a single bird! The Commercial Cross birds are not as fragile as many want you to believe. Provide them with clean water, proper housing, and manage their feed and you will be in good shape.

Jim

 

[bigredfeather]

I agree with BRF. We have a batch of 50 broilers that are 7 weeks old today, we have not lost a single bird! The Commercial Cross birds are not as fragile as many want you to believe. Provide them with clean water, proper housing, and manage their feed and you will be in good shape.

Jim

They aren't fragile, but they do require a bit more attention than other types of chickens.

 

[AgroUrica]

Fresh water, fresh feed supplied according to the recommendations of the folks at the hatcheries, vitamins, amino acids, every medicine on hand for every sickness known to man, vaccinations, fans, ice packs when it's hot, curtains and heaters when it's cold and rainy yada yada yada. I bet I check my birds 50 times a day because I've got them here at the house so they don't lack attention.

I've got two groups on hand now, one near slaughter, the other on day 21. With this last group, I will have raised 1800 birds since this past January.

I've raised a lot of animals over the years and, sorry folks, but MEAT BIRDS ARE FRAGILE. Raised under ideal conditions I still believe you'll see mortality on the order of 2%, with more birds dying as adults than as chicks. That's been my experience. The best I've done was 1% and that was under the best conditions I've had so far....dry and cool. Even then it was possible to find an otherwise healthy-looking "adult" bird stone dead 15 minutes after the last visit to their pen. Try to keep the birds much past 45 days and I believe you'll see mortality increase due to heart problems.

My error has been thinking I could bring in new groups every 14 days so that I'd have a steady supply of adult birds for slaughter. It doesn't work and commercial growers practice all-in all-out for a good reason. You just can't keep the place clean enough and avoid cross-contamination.

I'm hard-headed, but only to a point. But I have learned this, from here forward it's all-in, all-out.. Oh, did I mention that MEAT BIRDS ARE FRAGILE.

 

[bigredfeather]

AgroUrica, I sense some hostility in your response, and I apologize if I offended you in any way. That was not my intention.

I have a batch of 50 on the pasture right now. They have 10 gallons of water and a 30 pound feeder in their hoop house style tractor. They are currently 6 weeks old and doing well. I go out there once a day to refill their water and feeder, but outside that, I do nothing else for them on a daily basis. It's been very hot and humid here the past week, and during the day at work I am concerned the heat may cause them problems, but when I go out to attend to them in the evening, they are all happy, hungry, and alive.

I've been doing meat birds for 5 years now, so maybe the longer you raise them, you begin to see that they aren't as fragile as you think.

 

[AgroUrica]

AgroUrica, I sense some hostility in your response, and I apologize if I offended you in any way. That was not my intention.

I have a batch of 50 on the pasture right now. They have 10 gallons of water and a 30 pound feeder in their hoop house style tractor. They are currently 6 weeks old and doing well. I go out there once a day to refill their water and feeder, but outside that, I do nothing else for them on a daily basis. It's been very hot and humid here the past week, and during the day at work I am concerned the heat may cause them problems, but when I go out to attend to them in the evening, they are all happy, hungry, and alive.

I've been doing meat birds for 5 years now, so maybe the longer you raise them, you begin to see that they aren't as fragile as you think.

Hostility, no. Offended? Yes, a bit. BRF, what got my goat was this comment: If you have any losses after the first week or so, you have done something to cause it.

I'm raising these birds in Venezuela.....11 degrees north of the equator. I've spent a lot of time discussing the rearing of these birds with commercial producers in the area, and as mentioned, have produced almost 2,000 myself. There are many factors that affect my opinion of the birds, some of which I'm sure do not apply to birds produced in the States. For instance, the eggs aren't even produced here, they're imported from Colombia and Brazil and then hatched locally. There seems to be a lot of variance in the quality of the birds themselves from one hatching to the next. There's also definitely a lot of variance in the quality of the feed that's produced here. During the rainy season we fight with various strains of Newcastle and during the dry season we fight with heat that would make the average Ohio citizen feel, well, fragile. I'm originally from S. Louisiana so I know something about heat and humidity. Conditions can be brutal here.

These birds are supposedly a tropical strain, but I suspect that even when engineered for local conditions, there are still limits as to what one can accomplish. To me it seems logical that any bird that has been selectively bred to grow from an ounce or two at hatching to 5 1/2 lbs 42 days later is bound to suffer some serious health side effects that are beyond one's control. And reading the experiences of many others in the meat bird forum, it would appear that's the case too for many in the US. Leg problems, heart problems, breathing problems, etc.etc etc.

Many posters here are aghast at the losses they suffer. Are the losses their fault? Perhaps so. But it still begs the point. If one has to monitor the volume of feed, the hours during which the feed is provided, the percentage of protein, whether or not the birds need to be on a special diet, too much sunlight, not enough sunlight, shade, heat, cold, etc, it's difficult for me to reach the conclusion that these birds are "hardy". To me, they're not, and the best word to describe them is fragile. Fail to get everything right, and some of them are going to die for no apparent reason.

Our local chickens, referred to here as criollo, are amazingly tough and survive with minimal care. Hatch 'em and turn 'em loose and 6 or 8 months later they're laying eggs and producing offspring. I use them as a measure of hardiness.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[bigredfeather]

Again, I apologize. Guess I should have worded my response differently. How about if I had said.......if you have losses after the first week, then you didn't do something that could have avoided the loss. IMHO, one can head off most potential problems before they become a problem.

I think part of it is knowing the limitations and weaknesses of the CX. Typically I don't try to raise them during the hot Summer month in Ohio (late June, July, and August) because I know I am asking for potential problems. I know the heat can cause sudden death and the birds don't gain like they would in cooler, less humid conditions. I did this year because our freezer is almost empty. That said, I will process these at about 7 lbs live weight instead of 8-9 pounds. When I am expecting their time on the pasture to be in wet conditions (early Spring), I give them a preventative treatment of amprolium in the brooder to help them build up immunity to coccidiosis. This greatly reduces the severity of coccidiosis, and as a result, I don't fight slower weight gain due to a heavy load. As far as other issues that people on here have (leg and heart), I am convinced that is a factor of an incomplete feed ration. If your feed is properly formulated and balanced, these problems won't exist at the same percentage. I've raised close to 3,000 birds, and maybe 1% have had slipped tendons. The only time I had problems with flips is when I raised them inside with light 24 hours per day and fed them wide open. I knew I was asking for problems, but I wanted to get them in and out quickly and accepted the possibility of losing a few to CHF.

I've read large broiler houses anticipate a 3-5% loss. In my mind, that is the acceptable rate of death for the breed. These would be the "for no apparent reason" ones. These outfits have perfectly balanced feeds that they change as the birds grow. They are raised in a building with massive exhaust fans and cooling systems to prevent loses from excessive heat and ammonia build up. They put an anticoccidiant in the bedding and use a prevention level of amprolium (or some type of coccidiosis medicine) to control this parasite. Point being, they know the limitations and weaknesses, and do what it takes to keep their loses to a minimum.

Hope this all makes some bit of sense, and please understand I meant no offense in my statements.

 

[AgroUrica]

Again, I apologize. Guess I should have worded my response differently. How about if I had said.......if you have losses after the first week, then you didn't do something that could have avoided the loss. IMHO, one can head off most potential problems before they become a problem.

I think part of it is knowing the limitations and weaknesses of the CX.

Apology accepted and sorry if I appear thin-skinned. That comes from the fact that I feel I do everything possible to raise these birds under the best of conditions and with a minimal amount of suffering on their part.

My losses tend to run 2 - 3% on average, which is acceptable for me, though our rainy season has really been a challenge so far.

I think part of the disagreement we've had on this subject is based on how the birds are raised, and you touch on that subject. I don't doubt that when one can take his time and produce a bird for the freezer over a period of 12 to 14 weeks, that there are steps that can be taken to minimize loss.....dieting, free-ranging, etc. But I think we should agree that first and foremost, the Cornish Cross is a commercial breed, one that has been bred to reach market size within 42 to 45 days under intensive feeding programs and with restricted movement of the birds. Most commercial operators here consider anything beyond 45 days as a loss due to feed costs.

While my operation is small, it's still commercial. I produce the birds for slaughter and resale, not just for my family's consumption so I too am under pressure to get the birds to market size as quickly as possible. And when raised under those conditions, birds of all ages die for no apparent reason. In fact, in light of this conversation, I was thinking about the number of commercial operations I've visited to purchase ready-for-market live birds because my in-house production is not enough to cover my sales. I can't think of a single commercial operation I've visited where I haven't seen some dead birds as the live birds were being rounded up for sale.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts.

 

[bigredfeather]

I raise and sell them to others as well. Last year I sold right at 800, and could have sold more if I had them. I run them from March to June and then again from August to October. I bring in 100 chicks every 2 weeks and managing the hardships that come with going about it that way. At it's climax, I had 500 birds of different ages to look after. You're right, it's tough. I don't raise them for 12-14 weeks. Unless I'm looking to produce some 6-7 pound roasters, I don't have them more than 8 weeks. My goal is 7 weeks. I've had batches where I've lost more than 10%, and it's frustrating. Honestly, I've enjoyed doing this small batch for the family freezer. I've been able to coddle them with such things as treats and extra care which is something that get lost in the shuffle when I have 10x as many to maintain. It brings me back to when I first started doing meat birds.

I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.

 

[AgroUrica]

I raise and sell them to others as well. Last year I sold right at 800, and could have sold more if I had them. I run them from March to June and then again from August to October. I bring in 100 chicks every 2 weeks and managing the hardships that come with going about it that way. At it's climax, I had 500 birds of different ages to look after. You're right, it's tough. I don't raise them for 12-14 weeks. Unless I'm looking to produce some 6-7 pound roasters, I don't have them more than 8 weeks. My goal is 7 weeks. I've had batches where I've lost more than 10%, and it's frustrating. Honestly, I've enjoyed doing this small batch for the family freezer. I've been able to coddle them with such things as treats and extra care which is something that get lost in the shuffle when I have 10x as many to maintain. It brings me back to when I first started doing meat birds.

I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.

As I may have mentioned in this thread, I've tried the 2 week rotation for about 7 months now. All was well until the rains hit and then all heck broke loose. Way too many sick birds. I was told from the beginning that the young birds infect the older birds, not the other way around. I'm now vaccinating for Newcastle and once this last group is out the door, I'll scrub the place down and switch to all-in, all-out and work with 1,000 birds at a time.

 

[bigredfeather]

Yeah, that's probably the way to go (all-in/all-out) but I'm just not set up to run that many at a time. I have a full time job, a large garden, dairy goats, meat rabbits, egg laying chickens, and a milk cow, so my plate is pretty full. At some point I hope to make raising food my full time job, but until then, I'm maxed out.