Meat in poultry feed

[K0k0shka]

What's wrong with meat? As others have pointed out, chickens aren't vegetarian.

 

[3KillerBs]

I'm looking for regulations in the US about meat in poultry feeds. Either state or federal. I assumed it was not allowed but in a short search, I'm finding regulations that ban meat limit the ban to only ruminants. I hoped someone might have a reference handy.

I know nothing about the regulations, but every time I see the label on a certain popular brand of higher-priced grocery store eggs where it says "fed an all-natural vegetarian diet" I think "There is nothing natural about a vegetarian chicken."

 

[K0k0shka]

I know nothing about the regulations, but every time I see the label on a certain popular brand of higher-priced grocery store eggs where it says "fed an all-natural vegetarian diet" I think "There is nothing natural about a vegetarian chicken."

Vegetarian chickens, grass-fed beef, grain-free dog food, etc. are all marketing tricks aimed at people who don't understand animals but want to feel better about themselves. Feeding a cow grain only is a problem, but the solution isn't to feed it only grass. From one extreme to the other. And yeah chickens aren't vegetarian at all, and dogs aren't true carnivores either.

 

[Windrider]

Vegetarian chickens, grass-fed beef, grain-free dog food, etc. are all marketing tricks aimed at people who don't understand animals but want to feel better about themselves.

I know more about dogs than chickens. I participate in some sort of dog sport or competition 2-4 days a week, and the club I belong to has had nutrition researchers (not marketers) speak at our meetings. I agree that a lot of labeling is marketing only, but it is also true that there is a lot of new research being done.

For example, like you said, ONLY feeding cows grain means you have an omega-3 deficient meat to consume. Do they need to be 100% grass fed to have a nice amino acid balance? I haven't seen the research to know, but I bet "finishing" with grains is fine.

And yeah chickens aren't vegetarian at all, and dogs aren't true carnivores either.

I do know about dog food. Grain-free dog food isn't vegetable-free (obligate carnivorous), just grain-free. Most are around 80-90% meat, bone, and organ. The rest is vegetables. The problem is that most grain-free kibble has peas and/or potatoes as the binder, which new research shows are problematic for taurine uptake, so people need to be aware. Grain-free frozen or dehydrated is mostly excellent stuff (no starch needed as binder), though pretty pricy and maybe not worth it unless your dog is sensitive or an athlete.

I did notice a huge difference in the smell of my dogs when I took them off food with corn and other common grains. No "doggy smell" anymore (they are house dogs, so yeah, it is noticeable). They also have better muscle tone. I do feed some kibble with quinoa and sorghum as the grains, and some frozen that is free of any carb, but has many other veggies.

Anyway... back to chickens....

I agree that the idea of vegetarian chickens is laughable. One of my chicken's favorite foods to steal is my dogs' (excellent, expensive, meat-filled) food!

 

[NatJ]

What's wrong with meat? As others have pointed out, chickens aren't vegetarian.

I think it started because of "mad cow" disease. (Hmm, so feeding meat to herbivores wasn't a good idea, especially when it was meat from their own species.)

But now there are bans on meat (or specific meat products) in chicken food, in some parts of the world. Maybe it's because a cow might sneak a bite of chicken food? Maybe it's because there could be a chicken disease we haven't discovered yet? I'm not entirely sure of the logic here.

But if the chicken food cannot contain meat (either for legal reasons or for cost reasons), then of course the companies will print the package to make that sound like a good thing instead of a bad thing. Their job is to sell chicken food, and making the packaging say something attractive helps with that.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

The crazy thing is, there are no known prion diseases in poultry, so the "mad cow" concerns re: feeding an animal the brains of its own species really aren't based on the most common reason not to, and instead seem to be based on the "ick" factor. There is also a lot of precautionary principle run amuck, and in some cases, its pandering to the voters or a particular environmental persuasion - who may be a significant part of the voting electorate in a district. ...and likely don't care about the policy consequences of their moral judgements.

Just as many other voting blocks have seemingly little awareness and/or care for the real world consequences of their moral policy choices.

Now, the choice to not put dead or downed animals into the mill to make animal feed - that has practical, pragmatic use - its not cost effective to find out why they are dead/downed, so their risk to the feed supply can't be quantified. That makes risk balancing much harder. Where ingredients are cheap, and testing expensive, the choice to simply exclude is the most effective one on the basis of both health and cost.

 

[FeatheredFriends&Horses2]

Meat and bone meal, blood meal, feather meal, and fish meal are all very commonly used in non-vegetarian commercial diets in the US. Most of these products are kept to 15% or less of the diet, not for legal reasons, but for the taste and quality of the finished meat or egg. Where some of the confusion of their legality may come from is that beef mbm is not allowed to be fed to beef. Beef cattle may however consume mbm made from the offal of poultry or pork. This is due to the potential for an outbreak of BSE (mad cow) which is a prion disease that may be contracted by beef cattle eating offal from beef plants. Eating the meat of cattle infected with BSE may lead to humans suffering from Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Meat and bone meal, blood meal, feather meal, and fish meal are all very commonly used in non-vegetarian commercial diets in the US. Most of these products are kept to 15% or less of the diet, not for legal reasons, but for the taste and quality of the finished meat or egg. Where some of the confusion of their legality may come from is that beef mbm is not allowed to be fed to beef. Beef cattle may however consume mbm made from the offal of poultry or pork. This is due to the potential for an outbreak of BSE (mad cow) which is a prion disease that may be contracted by beef cattle eating offal from beef plants. Eating the meat of cattle infected with BSE may lead to humans suffering from Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease.

I've seen some claims that fish meal over 20% imparts an odd taste to eggs. Have essentially no sense of taste mysel, I couldn't tell you - but I have read that.

Also, the cost of my feed is such that I'm sure they don't use a lot of fish meal in it - even the "expensive" stuff is under $14 per 50#.

 

[FeatheredFriends&Horses2]

I've seen some claims that fish meal over 20% imparts an odd taste to eggs. Have essentially no sense of taste mysel, I couldn't tell you - but I have read that.

Also, the cost of my feed is such that I'm sure they don't use a lot of fish meal in it - even the "expensive" stuff is under $14 per 50#.

Fishmeal is still a relatively new ingredient in feed, and some studies have shown it can be incorporated in diets in greater amounts, but there’s little research and a lot of variables such as type of fishmeal, other ingredients in the diet, etc. At this time it is a rule of thumb for commercial nutritionists to keep the level at or below 15%, because we know that works and as feed in the commercial industry is formulated by the ton, not by the pound, if it messes with egg taste and quality, there are going to be a lot of upset customers. It may change in the future, but currently that’s the limit we’re advised to stick to.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I

Fishmeal is still a relatively new ingredient in feed, and some studies have shown it can be incorporated in diets, but there’s little research and a lot of variables such as type of fishmeal, other ingredients in the diet, etc. At this time it is a rule of thumb for commercial nutritionists to keep the level at or below 15%, because we know that works and as feed in the commercial industry is formulated by the ton, not by the pound, if it messes with egg taste and quality, there are going to be a lot of upset customers. It may change in the future, but currently that’s the limit we’re advised to stick to.

could link a bunch of studies over the past two decades - started reading up on it when I saw Justin Rhodes' recipe called for it in quantity - its one of the better, if not the best, "make at home" internet chicken feed recipe. But yes, like any other ingredieant, you need to know what you are buying, and when the nutrititional success of your feed mix is heavily reliant on a single ingredient (as it is in J Rhode's case with the Fish Meal inclusion), its that much more important that you know what you are buying.