Medicated or non-medicated chick starter?

[FlipFlopFarmer6279]

Are chicks from TSC vaccinated? I’ve haven’t heard about having chick vaccinated but I’m new to this as well.

Hmm I don't know... I never buy chicks for feed stores. Not trustworthy.

 

[Folly's place]

At least around here, feed store chicks are not vaccinated against anything. When we order chicks from a hatchery, having them vaccinated is a choice, costing a bit more. the Marek's disease vaccine is helpful, in case they are ever exposed to this disease (two weeks or longer after vaccination). It prevents the tumors that kill some birds who are infected with this disease.
In the USA, chick feed can come with amprolium added, to help chicks exposed to large amounts of coccidia manage this overexposure, and not get sick or die. Some of us have ground that's not heavily infested with this parasite, and the chicks do fine without the amprolium Other places, or another year, might be a different story. Preventing illness is a good thing! Treating chicks already ill is necessary, but not better than avoidiing the problem in the first place.
Mary

 

[FeatheredFriends&Horses2]

Welcome!
For @FeatheredFriends&Horses2 , and everyone on this thread; it would be best to actually look up what's approved organic, and what's not, before posting wrong information. The FARAD.org website has amprolium as an approved drug in the USA and the UK.
As a new chick owner, the safe plan is to feed the amprolium medicated feed, if you are in the USA.
And chicks can be vaccinated for different things! Marek's vaccine is a good idea, and amprolium is not relevant to that. Coccidiosis 'vaccine' is the issue with amprolium; one day on the medicated feed wipes out it's effectiveness.
Here we buy Marek's vaccinated chicks, and stopped feeding medicated chick starter, because of having years of no problems with coccidiosis. (Crossing fingers that one year this will no be a terrible idea!)
Our entire flock, chick to seniors, eats an all-flock diet, Flock Raiser, with separate oyster shell for the actively laying hens.
When you buy feed, look at the mill date on each bag!!! It should be within a month or six weeks, and used up within two or at most three months of that mill date, for best vitamins and freshness. Old feed is not a good thing!
Mary

You're right about the vaccines, I should have definitely clarified which vaccine I was referring to! The site I was looking at and referenced for amprolium's organic status was https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...ext&node=7:3.1.1.9.32.7&idno=7#se7.3.205_1603. As well as this one: https://poultry.extension.org/artic...dications-and-vaccines-in-poultry-production/ Would you mind posting the link to the site you're talking about?

 

[Folly's place]

That's a very comprehensive list, and a site I've never looked at before, because we aren't striving for certification as organic here.
FARAD.org is not all that easy to use, but at the bottom of it's home page are links to specific species, and then to 'Backyard Poultry', and lists of approved and unapproved drugs, and organic lists too.
Mary

 

[rosemarythyme]

Welcome to BYC! If your chicks are vaccinated for Mareks Disease you don't need medicated.

Mareks =/= coccidiosis, which is what most medicated feed in the US is designed to treat.

I don't feed medicated. I do keep Corid on hand in case it's needed. I had coccidiosis in my initial group of chicks but subsequent batches have been raised outdoors in the run, with rain and exposure to everything, and coccidiosis hasn't been an issue.

 

[Tallulahbelle]

You're right about the vaccines, I should have definitely clarified which vaccine I was referring to! The site I was looking at and referenced for amprolium's organic status was https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...ext&node=7:3.1.1.9.32.7&idno=7#se7.3.205_1603. As well as this one: https://poultry.extension.org/artic...dications-and-vaccines-in-poultry-production/ Would you mind posting the link to the site you're talking about?

 

[FeatheredFriends&Horses2]

@Tallulahbelle
I did some double checking. Amprolium is FDA approved to be administered without a VFD (animal prescription) and with no withdrawal time. However, it is not for use in organic poultry. Vaccines on the other hand (including the coccidiosis vaccine) are allowable in organic poultry so long as they are administered before 24 hours after hatching. @FlipFlopFarmer6279 stated that she's heard that you do not need to feed medicated feed if your chicks are vaccinated for Mareks. Here's why that is partially true. Amprolium has nothing to do with Mareks, but the Mareks and coccidiosis vaccine are often administered around the same time. So it is reasonable to conclude that if a bird is vaccinated against Mareks, there is a high probability they are also vaccinated against coccidiosis, and thus should not be given medicated feed. If your chicks have not been vaccinated, and you wish to go organic, the suggestion made by @ForrestMamaBear is an age old method of building up a chick's immunity. It follows the same principles as a vaccine by introducing a chick to (hopefully) small amounts of pathogens in order to slowly build up immunity. However, it is not as precise and predictable as a vaccine since we cannot control the type, quantity, or strength of the pathogens introduced, but if you want to go organic, this could be a good method to try. I hope this helps!

 

[Tallulahbelle]

I noticed that the second link

@Tallulahbelle
I did some double checking. Amprolium is FDA approved to be administered without a VFD (animal prescription) and with no withdrawal time. However, it is not for use in organic poultry. Vaccines on the other hand (including the coccidiosis vaccine) are allowable in organic poultry so long as they are administered before 24 hours after hatching. @FlipFlopFarmer6279 stated that she's heard that you do not need to feed medicated feed if your chicks are vaccinated for Mareks. Here's why that is partially true. Amprolium has nothing to do with Mareks, but the Mareks and coccidiosis vaccine are often administered around the same time. So it is reasonable to conclude that if a bird is vaccinated against Mareks, there is a high probability they are also vaccinated against coccidiosis, and thus should not be given medicated feed. If your chicks have not been vaccinated, and you wish to go organic, the suggestion made by @ForrestMamaBear is an age old method of building up a chick's immunity. It follows the same principles as a vaccine by introducing a chick to (hopefully) small amounts of pathogens in order to slowly build up immunity. However, it is not as precise and predictable as a vaccine since we cannot control the type, quantity, or strength of the pathogens introduced, but if you want to go organic, this could be a good method to try. I hope this helps!

Thank you very much for this information. I really appreciate it. I'd like to ask if while you were searching this, did it happen to mention eggs. I understand that poultry would not be organic, but if the chickens came off the feed well before laying, are the eggs organic? Or are the eggs never organic if you fed medicated food or if achicken gets coccidiosis and you have to treat it with amprolium? My specific concern is the eggs as the chickens will not be used for meat.

 

[Tallulahbelle]

I noticed that the second link

Thank you very much for this information. I really appreciate it. I'd like to ask if while you were searching this, did it happen to mention eggs. I understand that poultry would not be organic, but if the chickens came off the feed well before laying, are the eggs organic? Or are the eggs never organic if you fed medicated food or if achicken gets coccidiosis and you have to treat it with amprolium? My specific concern is the eggs as the chickens will not be used for meat.

Of course I mean, are the eggs organic if all other conditions are organic at the time of laying. I don't plan to get certified, I just want to eat the healthiest eggs possible.

 

[rosemarythyme]

Of course I mean, are the eggs organic if all other conditions are organic at the time of laying. I don't plan to get certified, I just want to eat the healthiest eggs possible.

If your goal is "organic enough" for your family, then do whatever makes sense to you as far as adhering to most organic principles as best you can in a backyard setting. I feed organic from the start (non-medicated, with Corid on hand if needed) and have never treated the lawn with fertilizers, pesticides, etc... but I also give the chickens some treats that are not certified organic, such as dried grubs. To me that's close enough to organic to be happy with what I'm eating.

Same with my vegetable gardening - I try to get organic starts/non-GMO seeds, and use my own compost, organic soil, organic fertilizers, but of course my yard hasn't been certified organic and if I can't get all organic plant starts, oh well, I don't sweat it - I know my homegrown produce is still "cleaner" than most of what's sold at a grocery store.

To be certified organic the chickens must be fed an organic diet from the very start. If for your own use you want to stick to that rule, feel free to.