Medicated starter feed vs fermented starter feed

[Pendragonz]

ACV does not make the body more acidic. ACV is acidic in nature, but causes our body to make changes so that our body actually becomes more alkaline from ingesting it. It's a process, but that is the way it works. It also works the same way in our animals. Keep in mind that disease cannot grow in an alkaline environment, so the more we can do to make ours, and our pets, systems more alkaline the healthier we will be. I also really enjoy the difference that fermented feed makes in my birds.

 

[Folly's place]

??? Where's the research to back this up? Adding vinegar to water may alter the pH, but the water's original pH hasn't been tested, right? Then, in chickens, very acid water will alter the pH in the crop, not always a good thing. Different species/ individuals have a normal baseline pH, and trying to alter it is a medical question, IMO. Mary

 

[Beer can]

I would address your drainage problem first. I've used deep litter for many yrs, barely ever clean the coop, no poop piles, no smell, everything breaks right down to powder, great stuff to mix in the garden. I always use sawdust and dry tree leaves for bedding, both free. I shy away from hay or dry grass, those can mold.
Moisture/poor drainage in the run, not much of a issue other than it would be better dry, there is unlimited ventilation in the run. In the coop though high moisture will give you problems, poo won't break down, ammonia, etc. Having good ventilation in the coop is very important also, especially in freezing temps, moisture breeds frostbite. Mine only has ventilation through the open rafters, 8' roof so no breeze on chickens. Pop door is always open also unless we are getting subzero weather with -20 windchill. Very little frostbite at those temps, none on hens, only the tips of the combs on roosters (no loss of tips, heals in the spring).
If proper drainage can't be obtained a raised floor is a option. My father raised chickens for many yrs in a 20'x20' log cabin style coop with a raised plywood floor using deep litter. He had many chickens in it for around thirty yrs, floor is still solid today, well ventilated dry coop. Coop sits on piers so not enclosed underneath, well ventilated.

As far as medicated/ and or fermented feed, like someone else said "It's about your comfort level with risk". Not against using medicated, I just never have, and chick losses have always been minimal, and some batches zero losses.
Just how I do it. I feed fermented mash to all my chickens, but chicks get just starter grower dry. As soon as they get a little bigger, feathering out I feed them it wet, one so they make less of a mess in the brooder, two so the eventual transition to fermented is less of a shock.

I've heard cider vinegar with the mother is good for chickens, good for us, I've just never used it. I caution against using it to ferment your feed, I say this cause some do, fermented feed is supposed to be a lactic acid ferment, just like sauerkraut or kimchi, and will have the same beneficial bacteria as yogurt. Adding cider vinegar makes it go acetic acid ferment. The enzymes in cider vinegar are PREbiotics and not PRObiotics. They can actually prevent the growth of good probiotics when put into the wet feed, and can even make it go alcohol fermentation.

 

[Intheswamp]

I would address your drainage problem first. I've used deep litter for many yrs, barely ever clean the coop, no poop piles, no smell, everything breaks right down to powder, great stuff to mix in the garden. I always use sawdust and dry tree leaves for bedding, both free. I shy away from hay or dry grass, those can mold.
<snip>
If proper drainage can't be obtained a raised floor is a option. My father raised chickens for many yrs in a 20'x20' log cabin style coop with a raised plywood floor using deep litter. He had many chickens in it for around thirty yrs, floor is still solid today, well ventilated dry coop. Coop sits on piers so not enclosed underneath, well ventilated.

I've heard folks say that deep litter doesn't work in a raised floor. I'm glad to hear your father was successful at doing it. I'm feeling more confident about it...and the run.

Ed

 

[Beer can]

I've heard folks say that deep litter doesn't work in a raised floor. I'm glad to hear your father was successful at doing it. I'm feeling more confident about it...and the run.

Ed

Thinking about it, my father-in-law raised meat birds in the second story of his old barn on whatever old rough cut barn boards are made of, pine, hemlock, maybe spruce. Had a trap door for shoveling the manure out. I didn't see any deterioration in his lumber either. I imagine the key in litter on wood is keeping it dry.
I actually never heard of cleaning a coop regularly, poop boards, tile or linoleum floors etc until reading BYC, didn't realize the way everybody I know raises chickens was referred to as deep litter, never heard of it referred to as 'deep litter' just the way everyone I know has always raised their birds.

 

[susanfmo]

I would address your drainage problem first. I've used deep litter for many yrs, barely ever clean the coop, no poop piles, no smell, everything breaks right down to powder, great stuff to mix in the garden. I always use sawdust and dry tree leaves for bedding, both free. I shy away from hay or dry grass, those can mold.
Moisture/poor drainage in the run, not much of a issue other than it would be better dry, there is unlimited ventilation in the run. In the coop though high moisture will give you problems, poo won't break down, ammonia, etc. Having good ventilation in the coop is very important also, especially in freezing temps, moisture breeds frostbite. Mine only has ventilation through the open rafters, 8' roof so no breeze on chickens. Pop door is always open also unless we are getting subzero weather with -20 windchill. Very little frostbite at those temps, none on hens, only the tips of the combs on roosters (no loss of tips, heals in the spring).
If proper drainage can't be obtained a raised floor is a option. My father raised chickens for many yrs in a 20'x20' log cabin style coop with a raised plywood floor using deep litter. He had many chickens in it for around thirty yrs, floor is still solid today, well ventilated dry coop. Coop sits on piers so not enclosed underneath, well ventilated.

As far as medicated/ and or fermented feed, like someone else said "It's about your comfort level with risk". Not against using medicated, I just never have, and chick losses have always been minimal, and some batches zero losses.
Just how I do it. I feed fermented mash to all my chickens, but chicks get just starter grower dry. As soon as they get a little bigger, feathering out I feed them it wet, one so they make less of a mess in the brooder, two so the eventual transition to fermented is less of a shock.

I've heard cider vinegar with the mother is good for chickens, good for us,  I've just never used it. I caution against using it to ferment your feed, I say this cause some do, fermented feed is supposed to be a lactic acid ferment, just like sauerkraut or kimchi, and will have the same beneficial bacteria as yogurt. Adding cider vinegar makes it go acetic acid ferment. The enzymes in cider vinegar are PREbiotics and not PRObiotics. They can actually prevent the growth of good probiotics when put into the wet feed, and can even make it go alcohol fermentation.

I did successfully address the drainage issue: water drains well now and coop is very well ventilated with the same weed mat floor. So I expect to do DLM in both coop and run. For now, I'm starting it in the run: just added some good soil, weeds from the garden (none poisonous - I know plants well), and am adding the chicks poopy pine shavings. I'm keeping the shavings only in the coop for now, and adding a few handfuls of dirt for them to play and dust bathe in.

 

[susanfmo]

I have raised a batch of meat chickens last fall, and am currently raising some layers now. I swear by the fermented feed. I had read about how nasty the meat chickens are, with ill health, stinky poops, etc. Then I read about the fermented feed. I decided to go with the fermented feed for the meat chickens and had good chickens. The bm's weren't too stinky, they had decent health, and overall I was quite happy. Also, when I processed them the smell wasn't unbearable which I had heard complaints about. I also added 1-2T of raw, unpasteurized apple cider vinegar to their water. With the success I had with the meaties I decided to use fermented feed, and ACV in the water for my layer chicks. I ordered 25, and lost 2 within the first 3 days, but since then these chicks are in great health. I will always do the fermented feed.
 

I decided to use fermented feed (using water, not vinegar), but I read that it shouldn't be left out long in the coop. They love it and eagerly eat their fill, but then ignore it. So I remove the dish after they get their fill and leave them dry starter at all times. I panicked, though, when one died on the second morning (no pasty butt or anything), so I ran out and got them medicated feed. So now their dry food is medicated and they get the regular fermented feed several times a day. They are thriving now (day five). Pendragonz: do you leave fermented food in their coop all the time? Thanks to everyone for all the info!

 

[Intheswamp]

Thinking about it, my father-in-law raised meat birds in the second story of his old barn on whatever old rough cut barn boards are made of, pine, hemlock, maybe spruce. Had a trap door for shoveling the manure out. I didn't see any deterioration in his lumber either. I imagine the key in litter on wood is keeping it dry.
I actually never heard of cleaning a coop regularly, poop boards, tile or linoleum floors etc until reading BYC, didn't realize the way everybody I know raises chickens was referred to as deep litter, never heard of it referred to as 'deep litter' just the way everyone I know has always raised their birds.

I'll be going with a raised floor. But, I will be covering it with either a heavy paint or linoleum. I'm still trying to decide on utilizing a poop board or not...whether it will help with the area of the coop where poop will be the heaviest/most concentrated. Or, whether it will simply create more work.

Ed

 

[susanfmo]

Forgot to add that I only bought a small bag of medicated feed and expect to only use it a couple weeks or so. I'm introducing them to dirt in small amounts now, and will let them in the run later this week.

 

[Pendragonz]

Forgot to add that I only bought a small bag of medicated feed and expect to only use it a couple weeks or so. I'm introducing them to dirt in small amounts now, and will let them in the run later this week.

I leave it in their feeder until they eat it. They eat most of it right away though. If they don't eat it all before next feeding then I just add a little bit to it.