Medicated vs. Unmedicated

[Poodlemum]

Our property is apparently chock full of coccidiosis I’ve started using a nonmedicated local mill mix until we move outside and then medicated. Every season change, someone comes down with it and I have to do a round of Corid. We’ve had good results with vaccinations, but most our chicks are local and incubated. Is it something I can do at home?

 

[Pampered chicken girl]

Our property is apparently chock full of coccidiosis I’ve started using a nonmedicated local mill mix until we move outside and then medicated. Every season change, someone comes down with it and I have to do a round of Corid. We’ve had good results with vaccinations, but most our chicks are local and incubated. Is it something I can do at home?

I found a spray vaccine online that I THINK I don't need a vet to obtain. I know how you feel I lost 2 10 week Olds to coccidiosis . I really would like the vaccine but 1. It may be pricey and 2. Possibly hard to obtain. If I could get it I would do it over medicated food, if you Google "coccidiosis spray vaccine for chicks" lots of good stuff will come up.

 

[yajra]

Last time I raised chicks I used manna pro medicated chick starter. This time I am more experienced and am thinking whether or not to use medicated feed. What do you use or prefer? Why do you use one or the other? What are the risks and pros with either one?
Thank,
Me and future chicks

I have started mixing the medicated feed with grower feed, as well as providing Diacetamous earth once per week.

I had the wee ones on just medicated until I mixed them with some older hens. Now I just mix the feeds, and provide them with 10-12 hours of outdoor time a day, as well as frozen treats. Little bastards are ravenous and growing fast.

 

[Pampered chicken girl]

I have started mixing the medicated feed with grower feed, as well as providing Diacetamous earth once per week.

I had the wee ones on just medicated until I mixed them with some older hens. Now I just mix the feeds, and provide them with 10-12 hours of outdoor time a day, as well as frozen treats. Little bastards are ravenous and growing fast.

Okay thanks. You feed diacetamous earth what does it do for them

 

[Brooks_]

Okay thanks. You feed diacetamous earth what does it do for them

Nothing, might make owner feel better. Can reduce bugs in feed.

 

[3KillerBs]

I have started mixing the medicated feed with grower feed, as well as providing Diacetamous earth once per week.

The dose in medicated feed is very low already. Mixing it is likely to significantly reduce it's effectiveness.

 

[My Very First 6 Chickens]

I use non-medicated and offer soil/sod clumps at an early age to build tolerance.

I guess thats what I did as well, unknowingly. My thinking was, even in brooder, they need a little taste of the outside. I use unmedicated chick starter and was giving them sod at 2 weeks. They definitely found grubs in there. I purchased my chicks from TSC and now wonder if they fed medicated or not. I should call and ask them. Good luck!

 

[Chicken Heel]

As I stated on another thread recently, I have never used medicated feed going back about 55 years and have never had any issues with any disease outbreak in my flocks in that time. With chicks in the brooder, I will provide clods of grass and soil beginning at about a week old and with hens with chicks they go on the ground from day one. It has worked for me allowing the chicks to be exposed to the various natural pathogens and building their immunity quickly. I have been fortunate.

 

[Regina Larsen]

In the US, "Medicated" chicken feed usually means Amprolium, which is a thiamine antagonist. It disrupt's coccidia's ability to thrive. Think of it like red tide in a chickens gut. Only instead of dinoflagellates always present in the seawater which, when conditions are just right, bloom into massive colonies whose toxins are bad for every living thing nearby; instead its coccidia in a chicken's digestive tract that, when conditions are just right, bloom into a huge colony which is very bad for the host chicken.

Amprolium's operation is really basic, chemically, and coccidia largely have not developed resistance to it, though its been used for decades. There are broad spectrum, and with more chemically complicated means of operation, anti-microbial medications to which coccidia HAVE developed broad resistance - in shorter time frames.

/edit and Amprolium can be rendered functionally ineffective, unknowingly, by people trying to do the "right thing" by giving vitamin supppliments to their coccidia-sick birds. While Aprolium disrupt's coccidia's ability to uptake thiamine, if your greatly increase the thiamine in their environment, its effects can be overcome.

Im curious to know whether injectable B complex for support is warranted during medicated stages (in chicks) in acute symptomatic cases (in all stock). Thiamine stores and intracellular levels have no osmotic pressure to cross back into the gut (as far as i know, i could be wrong hell the odds are always good that i am) so as an injectable bypassing the PO route the B's can remain accessible to the critter. Certainly B12 should be given to goats to keep polio at bay. Complex will also help avoid goat gut issues i should think.
A syptomatic outbreak in chicks could be less fatal with B complex injection perhaps (?)
I would have to look up the doses. Im sure they are so small an insulin syringe would be the best hardware to use. Thoughts?

 

[Regina Larsen]

I'll copy something I wrote a few years back about the life cycle of the bug that causes Coccidiosis. The medicine in Manna Pro Medicated is Amprolium so this applies.

First you need to know what the "medicated" is in the medicated feed. It should be on the label. Usually it is Amprolium, Amprol, some such product, but until you read the label, you really don't know. Most "medicated' feed from major brands for chicks that will be layers uses Amprolium, but there are a few out there mostly for broilers that use other medicines. I'll assume yours is an Amprolium product, but if it is not, then realize everything I say about it may not apply. And it is possible that the "medicated" is Amprolium AND something else.

Amprolium is not an antibiotic. It does not kill anything. It inhibits the protozoa that cause coccidiosis (often called Cocci on this forum) from multiplying in the chicken's system. It does not prevent the protozoa from multiplying; it just slows that multiplication down. There are several different strains of protozoa that can cause Cocci, some more severe than others. Chickens can develop immunity to a specific strain of the protozoa, but that does not give them immunity to all protozoa that cause Cocci.

It is not a big deal for the chicken’s intestines to contain some of the protozoa that cause Cocci. The problem comes in when the number of those protozoa gets huge. The protozoa can multiply in the chicken’s intestines but also in wet manure. For them to reproduce they need some moisture. Slightly damp isn't an issue, soaking wet is. Different protozoa strains have different strengths, but for almost all cases, if you keep the brooder dry, you will not have a problem.

To develop immunity to a specific strain, that protozoa needs to be in the chicks intestines for two or three weeks. The normal sequence is that a chick has the protozoa. It poops and some of the cysts that develop the protozoa come out in the poop. If the poop is slightly damp, those cysts develop and will then develop in the chick's intestines when the chicks eat that poop. This cycle needs go on for a few weeks so all chicks are exposed and they are exposed long enough to develop immunity. A couple of important points here. You do need to watch them to see if they are getting sick. And the key is to keep the brooder dry yet allow some of the poop to stay damp. Not soaking wet, just barely damp. Wet poop can lead to serious problems.

What sometimes happens is that people keep chicks in a brooder and feed them medicated feed while they are in the brooder. Those chicks are never exposed to the Cocci protozoa that lives in the dirt in their run, so they never develop the immunity to it. Then, they are switched to non-medicated feed and put on the ground where they are for the first time exposed to the protozoa. They do not have immunity, they do not have the protection of the medicated feed, so they get sick. Feeding medicated feed while in the brooder was a complete waste.

I do not feed medicated feed. I keep the brooder dry to not allow the protozoa to breed uncontrollably. The third day that they are in the brooder, I take a scoop of dirt from the run and feed it to them so I can introduce the protozoa and they can develop the immunity they need to the strain they need to develop an immunity to. Since I keep my brooder extremely dry and the water clean the protozoa can't reproduce so every three days I give them more dirt from the run so they get more protozoa and can develop immunity. I don't lose chicks to Cocci when they hit the ground.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding medicated feed to chicks, whether the protozoa are present or not. It will not hurt them. They can still develop the immunity they need. But unless the protozoa are present, it also does no good.

If you get your chicks vaccinated for Cocci, do not feed medicated feed. It can negate the vaccinations.


I don't see it as risks or pros. Medicated feed is simply a tool that, if used right, can help reduce the chances of your chicks developing Coccidiosis. If you don't use it right it does no good.

Thank you for this. I have 2 day olds under a mamma in the coop. Still on fairly deep shavings. We may put them on ground monday or Tuesday. I love your idea of providing tiny exposure levels to promote effective B cell responses.
Excellent piece.
Are cocci vax only good if given on day 1?