Michigan Thread - all are welcome!

[RaZ]

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Yep, It seems like I haven't left it in days.

 

[Chase Family]

MEET THE FLOCKS

Coop 1 "The original"

This is a mix of breeds. We went to TSC and told the kids to pick a chick. We ended up with a light brown Leghorn, Buff Orpington, RIR, EE, and a White Wyandotte. The rooster we go locally and he is a Lavender Ameraucana.









Coop 2

There is a Sebright rooster, 2 polishes and a couple of silkies. This coop will be changing in the spring/ summer. The rooster is mean and he has to go. I have a frizzle rooster I am thinking of putting in this coop











Holding pen 1:

Frizzle bantam cochins..... mostly roosters





Holding pen 2: Hatched from the original flock . Had 14 sold 7. also ended up with 2 twisted beaks that showed up 3weeks in for one and 5 weeks in for the second one.










brooder
Second hatch

 

[naglady]

@chasefamily love your birds, very nice selection,

I put my eggs in the incubator at 2 pm.. now to stay away for a day so the temp can settle, keep it in my dd rooms, i use the little giant still air incubator, come on 21 days..

 

[Trefoil]

This is what worries me, the muddying of the draw off line. Essentially it throws everything back into the township's lap; and insures that even in places that allow for the 3 hens no roosters you will still be ultimately denied. And you are very right about the residential zoning, and add to that the fact they can change your zone without you ever knowing.......... sounds fishy to me. I think chickens should be like rabbits, very much so. But the average guy isn't worried about this, so broadening the issue and wording it so the average homeowner who may or may not even have them is essential. We have to be simple and concise, or they'll never listen and we NEED more numbers for this fight! Bigger ag seems to me very distainful toward us who have less animals; i must say right now the feeling's mutual. I was told by this guy the whole "filthy" and "bird flu" argument, so even people who are knowledgable about birds are still NOT.......Hmph. I said that i'd rather have a chicken crap in my yard than the neighbor's dog, less crap! ha! I was disgusted by the bird flu comment. I said what about the sparrows? "Oh, but they aren't confined" he says. "confined animals breed more disease, easier" I said only if their cage was crowded and gross, and what of the sparrows? If they got it wouldn't it spread? "oh, you would never be able to control it" Grrrrrr! So these egg heads think they are protecting us from ourselves, apparently. Like our chicken's conditions are even remotely CLOSE to a commercial facility! Sorry but i don't need a hazmat suit to go in mine.

I do want chickens in the city, i apologize if i come off sounding callous. I was attempting to show the other view as well, as this mindset is what we are up against. I myself have incognito mini hens in my city trailer (at least until spring). I love each and every one of my birds! My dad is a good representation of "the other guy". I wasn't raised with him after 4th grade, and upon meeting me he was disturbed to say the least to find out i'm one of those "bleeding heart tree huggers". LOL. Very disgusted with my gardening and chickens, he moved us out of illinois to get away from the lowly farm life to find me trying to BE one LOL.

I wrote an article about this that i think is pretty simple and would get people's attention, but i don't have the foggiest idea where to send it........

Send it to the "letters to the editor" in all of Michigan's newspapers. I don't know how to accomplish this but it can be done with most of them through the internet. If you pm me a copy, I'll see that it somehow gets posted in the online Michigan live version of Flint and Saginaw papers, even if only as a comment.

 

[fuzzybutt love]

Quote:Originally Posted by SillyChicken Last one till I'm done...........
Ooooooo........speachless. If that don't bring on rivalry in the bidding i don't know what will! That is one drawing i'm sure everyone will covet, i covet it and i'm not even a "yak person"! Reminds me of the better indian genra pictures.

Quote:Originally Posted by BigHope888 I'm not sure how to define what i want. They are so vague it's making it hard to even prove their intent! (except that they don't want chickens in the city, i hear that LOUD and clear.)

I am looking at representing our sect as being small business owners like we have done so far; to look/ talk/ dress like i would if i were actually running a shop downtown in the public eye; (work pretty, remember raz?) Thus far i'm concentrating on coming up with products that generally only small livestock facilities produce, and calling it "filling a niche market". Goat milk Soaps, raw honey, high quality/ hand spun wool fiber, colorful/ organic/ gmo free eggs, organic/ grass fed local meat, heirloom turkey meat, (top chefs prefer the bourbon red over other varieties due to flavor)..........etc. What we really need is examples of such product successfully selling in the stores/ market. Business names. Maybe some actual product brought into the meeting, to make it more memorable. Remember, 50 units isn't always 50 animals it's usually more unless you have cows. Even horses are i think 25 horses! But 5000 chickens...... so first to prove our worth, then show how useless the animal unit measurements are.

The other issue i have thus far is the zone thing. You have to abide by category AND zone, with much land even in the country not zoned for ag. So i want to fight against using zone, period. Also, we aren't protected by law since we are not livestock Production facilities; now we have a name (livestock facilities) and are supposedly allowed to have our birds in permissable places, but where are these so-called places? Why say you CAN have them if you aren't protected?
And it looks like we still need permission in category 3; so i imagine that might be a license that costs money..........and might be inspectable, I know a gal who used to be a pheasant breeder, had thousands. She said she was registered, and that they can come in and inspect your facility at any time with or without permission and you foot the bill. If they don't like what they see they can choose to terminate them or court order you to. Is this what we are looking at? Idk but i sure want to find out! Or is it to be like dog licences? You pay yearly to renew, but if you don't you get a knock on the door and a warrant??? Aagh!
As to in the city i think the issue is the outdoor housing. A lot of places won't allow for outdoor dog kennels, which coops essentially are. I would like to see 3 or less hens classed as pets, perhaps kept inside. An indoor aviary could be the solution here, and i imagine if you leashed (maybe diapered) them for outside i don't see where the rub could be. Especially bantam chickens; they are saying that there is no such thing as a pet chicken, only livestock. Livestock is generally USEFUL. I love my little guys, but really what USE are they? I think compromise is crucial here, the "dirt/ bird flu/ noise" objections are the backbone of the opposition. Take that out, what do they have??? We know that our outdoor coops are safe and clean, but for now at least i think i'd let them cling to their beliefs. We haven't been able to change those yet, and it's been a year already not counting media and celebrities who celebrate chickens as clean and fun. :/

Quote:Originally Posted by wingless Unfortunately he was only echoing the others in my shop who also have strong ties to what i define as middle ag; not so big as tyson or anything but definitely more than 50 animal units in most but not all cases. I give up on trying to get help from this secter. The middle guys are more against the idea of us as being small business as the "big guys"! They might actually be what got this particular ball rolling............? I think the "big guys" more or less laugh at us, they are big enough that our meager bits don't hurt theirs. Middle guys are suspect now in my mind.
As far as law, most citys only have ordinances for or against farm animals. That isn't a law per say, so would be affected for sure! Also from how my dad has explained politics to me (regarding the health care reform, but applicable) " Law is something that must also be constitutional. It can't violate your rights; Acts however can go where law can't, and trump "law". This is how they get away with things that violate your rights. " So there you have it; the affordable health care act, and right to farm act. Functions as a law, but goes where law can't.

Quote:Originally Posted by Trefoil OK wingless and trefoil, i'll refine it. I have to take out/ reword some bits because the new draft isn't so clear as the old, and they did compromise on some of the issues at least. (before even if you only had one animal you had to abide by the same setback distance as the big ag!!!, and they were trying to do away with grandfather rights; that is how some of these big old farms are ok being so close to watershed/ residential areas that would be taboo nowadays!)

 

[RaZ]

Tomorrow, 20-Jan-2014, Wendy and I will be on the radio in Lansing, http://lansingonlinenews.com/ to talk about small farm operations and the proposed GAAMP changes. 7:00 pm is air time and is also a web cast. Tune in if you can.

 

[fuzzybutt love]

Also i would like to see a clause that if there is a current ordinance allowing for hens in a particular city that this act will not pre-umpt it. (I think that's the word for make it obsolete?)

 

[Peep-Chicken]

Ranger, loves his chicken toy. Look at the toy, he set it down like its waving!

 

[Trefoil]

I need some clarification on just what GAAMPS is or isn't. Are the guidelines in the GAAMP considered law? Is GAAMP certification necessary to own a farm? What are the penalties for not having certification? Is GAAMP tied,in what way, to the right to farm act?
Its my understanding that GAAMP only applies if you make money with your "livestock",i.e. sell eggs,chicks, chickens, or meat. Is this right?
If so, then we need to broaden our scope to encompass chickens as a "right" within the city or anywhere else, as long as they comply with existing noise , smell, and other applicable ordinances. As I see it, it would be constitutional to ordinance against foul smell, drawing nuisance varmits, and excessive noise, because they infringe on the rights of neighbors, but to outlaw the owning of chickens per sai (?) infringes on the individuals rights ( and has nothing to do with anyone else) and without actual violations wouldn't be constitutional. I believe that GAAMPS is only a small part of our problem, the big part is attacking the infringement on our rights.

 

[fuzzybutt love]

My understanding is that gaamps are guidlines attatched to the right to farm act. (acts supercede law somehow) So we have to abide by it.

I'm not an expert, but from how i'm reading the new draft we now have to obey the guidelines since now ANY property containing livestock "as defined in the right to farm act" is now classed as a "livestock operation *regardless of number*" (still out whether rabbits are still included, can't find "the list" of animals. Not all animals included are on the short list.)

the site selection "gaamp" (fancy word for part of the document) defines where we can and CAN'T operate since in the 2014 version ANY property containing livestock is included. The 2014 version takes away any usage of the "right to farm" protection by classing any property owning livestock under 50 units a livestock facility vs a "real farm" of 50 animal units or more. (one of the state representatives actually used the words "real farm" last year in the coopersville meeting) Those "real farms" have to register already, and are protected in this act. We are not. Regulated, but not protected.

Long and short i am making guesses, but educated ones. And i don't like what i'm seeing.
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so the short version is: to have chickens on a property zoned ag with more than 13 houses within 1/4 a mile that are not registered "farms" of 50 animal units or more (as newly defined in the new gaamps) you MAY have to find out if you MAY be suitable. And i've never known a township to have anything you have to ask about unless it was a permit you had to pay for? Guessing still but very highly probable.

Grey area.

Also you have to remember that if you are not zoned ag, you won't get to have livestock animals period; and many country properties are zoned residential. Another thing i'm trying to see if it's true is that they can change your zone even while you are still living there; you may buy an ag property but they can change it at will to a residential.???? Anyone have proof of this?
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Straight from the gaamps document:
Category 3 Sites: Sites generally not acceptable for new and expanding livestock production facilities.

New and expanding livestock production facilities should not be constructed in areas where local zoning does not allow for agriculture uses.Category 3 sites may be zoned for agriculture but generally not suitable for livestock production facilities. They may be suitable for livestock facilities.

(the "grey area" i don't like)
Any proposed site with more than the maximum number of non-farm residences specified in *Table 4 for a new operation, and Table 5 for an expanding operation is a Category 3 site.

*table 4 puts that at 6-13 (non farm residences) within ¼ mile; no need to look at table 5 since we aren't registered i'm assuming we would automatically be a "new" operation in their eyes.

here's another grey area; that table starts at 50 units!