Michigan

[teeville5]

How old are your chicks, Tap?
Is tail development really a good way to tell? My chicks are only a week old and just have the round fuzz butt. But I have 5 sex link pullets and I'll be comparing their tales to the SLWs.

I'm not certain if it works for everyone about how fast or slow tail development is to discern gender, but I was able to tell by it. Last year when we got our first 20 chicks, I watched them daily for any developments and I noticed one at around 3 weeks that kind of had slight difference than the others. I told DH I bet it would be a roo and I was right. One of the giveaways was it hardly had a tail (short and stumpy) while the others had tail feathers at least twice as long if not longer.

 

[chicken grandma]

Among all that paperwork you brought home with you, are there research papers cited as to the validity of their statements?

I appreciate that you went to the seminar and are reporting back to us. I'm a natural skeptic and I question some of the statements they made.

RaZ - you can see from the photo that there is a lot of papers for us. Yes, there is some data attached to some parts of it. Dr. Karcher is a PhD. Dr. Fulton has been at M.S.U. 'a long time'.
The information on these papers is all coming from Iowa State, Virgina Tech, Univ of Ohio, Univ of Nebraska... good sources. They are going for biosecurity and high egg production between 6 months and 2 years. So that is their focus. So they are giving hens heat and light and reasonable space and good food = eggs.
p.s. RaZ - Dr. Mick Fulton has a PhD also and is an Avian Pathologist Dipl. A.C.P.V. Wow! I'm impressed. We are fortunate to be able to call or email him if we need to.

 

[RaZ]

I was always told by my Grandmother that pullets get tails before roosters. Also a pullets wing feathers are longer than a roosters.
This always proved 100% for me.

So am I looking at pullet wings on these SLWs?

 

[M.sue]

Nova, I know, I know. They suggested keeping old chickens and new chickens in two totally separate flocks.

If that means separate coops I think I might have a slight problem. I was planning on adding a few to my existing flock, was planning on using the same coop and free ranging together. I was planning to quarantine & keeping them separate till they were big enough to go in the coop with the big girls. Just might have to build another coop....maybe.

 

[chicken grandma]

M. Sue - we got so much info that I really did not press Dr. Karcher on the 'WHY' of keeping the new younger chickens and the older chickens separate. His email is public and perhaps I will send him an email so we can clarify the 'why' of that recommendation.


M. Sue - I e mailed Dr. Karcher and asked him to let me know the reasons for keeping different age chickens in separate flocks. I'll let you know when he replies.

 

[RBahmer]

So am I looking at pullet wings on these SLWs?

A pullets wing feathers are much longer than a roosters when they first get their wing feathers. That second picture looks like a rooster to me. In the first picture look how much longer the Isa Browns wing feathers are.

 

[M.sue]

M. Sue - we got so much info that I really did not press Dr. Karcher on the 'WHY' of keeping the new younger chickens and the older chickens separate. His email is public and perhaps I will send him an email so we can clarify the 'why' of that recommendation.

Like I said....I really appreciate you sharing the info. It just baffled me a bit for I never remember my GF having separate coops or flocks. Always had one huge coop, would get new chicks, keep them separate till big enough, cull some old ones and add the new...sorta a rotating thing. I'm always willing to listen, read & learn and then I usually make a decision. Would be interesting to know his reason why.

 

[RaZ]

RaZ - you can see from the photo that there is a lot of papers for us. Yes, there is some data attached to some parts of it. Dr. Karcher is a PhD. Dr. Fulton has been at M.S.U. 'a long time'.
The information on these papers is all coming from Univ of Iowa, Penn State Univ., Univ of Wisconsin... good sources. They are going for biosecurity and high egg production between 6 months and 2 years. So that is their focus. So they are giving hens heat and light and reasonable space and good food = eggs.

I'm looking forward to reading those papers and the research papers as well. In the last couple of years of reading peer reviewed journals, I've learned to look closely at the "sponsors" of the research. The schools you mention get a lot of grants from the big commercial producers and feed companies and I think there is a certain quid pro quo that takes place.

The 16 hours of light led me to conduct my stats experiment. It might be optimal for commercial operations, but in the backyard flock I have my doubts. What about chickens near the equator? They never get more than 12 hours of natural daylight. Where I'm at, I never got less than 9 hours of daylight and I had high egg output. In fact, since Jan.1 my overall egg output has showed a downward trend in spite of increased light.

Egg output based on light has been a "rule" for decades but I can find no valid correlation or statistical significance. I suspect that bird health, nutrition and available forage are more important factors. I'm hopeful that as backyard flocks gain popularity, the research science will look at those birds as well. Although independent research is more difficult to do, it should still be considered by academia. My humble opinion of course.

 

[NovaAman]

Carl mixes his as soon as they are near the same size...

 

[Chickmate]

I am in Holt Michigan outside of Lansing. Started with chickens about a year ago. I bought to pair of Serama from Jerry the gentleman who brought the breed to America. I started with B and D class and continued to buy eggs from other Serama breeders now I Have A and Micro A birds as well. Also am raising Coturnix quail and White Silkies, Mille Fleur, Cochin, and Seabrights. My mother was instrumental in this operation to get it going and has bought for spring (May) delivery Sultans, Spitzhauben, and Favorelles. We also have a couple of Polish roosters. All of my chickens are separated so no mixing of the breeds. I buy from NPIP sellers but havent been able to find a tester for my flock so I can be certified. Anyone know someone in Michigan who does this around my area. I really enjoy hatching eggs as my mother bought me a Sportsman incubator for Christmas last year. The picture on my profile is an Appenzeller Spitzhauben. Really like this bird.

Contact me if you know of a tester in my area. Email me at [email protected]

It is a pleasure getting to know all of you Michiganders.

Welcome LST Poultry! So nice to have you! Love to have new people who breed so we have more BYC people to buy from opposed to hatcheries. You sure got going fast having only started with chickens a year ago!

Summary - Vaccinate your chicks.

For Mareks, ask the hatchery to vaccinate your chicks or use Fort Dodge POULVAC MD-VAC CFL Give once under skin of back of neck must be done at hatching. Chicks at the Tractor Supply or Farm and Family are not vaccinated.

For Fowl Pox and Coccidia- Vet Poultry Suppy 269-751-5151 Holland, Michigan and Cutler's Pheasant Supply 810 633-9450 Applegate Michigan www.cutlersupply.com

For Infectious Laryngotracheitis use only Pox vectored vaccine Biomune's VECTORMUNE FP LT because some vaccines for ILT can CAUSE the illness. Report this illness to th State Vets if you suspect it 517-373-1077

Hmmm. Four vaccines? I understand and agree with Mareks and Infectious Laryngotracheitis, but I didn't think Fowl Pox was that prevalent and I assumed the medicine in chick starter took care of cocci and that older fowl became more or less immune to it. I thought that's what I read anyway. Too bad there isn't one vaccine like there is for dogs that takes care of all four at once. It might be hard for small flock raisers and backyard hobbyists to afford four different vaccines for each chick. Some of the vaccines are pretty pricey and sold in large lots for production poultry raisers.
Chicken Grandma and snowflake, thank you for taking notes and sharing your knowledge and hand outs with those of us who didn't go! I look forward to picking them up at Chickenstock.

Nova, I know, I know. They suggested keeping old chickens and new chickens in two totally separate flocks.

They suggested that we give our chickens 16 hours of light a day when we want them to lay. And they suggest cutting that light back to 8 hours per day when we want them to moult. Or we can just follow the natural seasons of a natural moulting in the Autumn.

And they suggested that we keep our coops about 52 degrees ideally in the Winter and at least above freezing at all times. YEAH YEAH!!! I WAS SO HAPPY! SOMEONE AGREES WITH ME ABOUT HEATING THE COOP!

I just knew my chickens liked a bit of heat!
Takes the edge off surviving and they lay better.

Commerical operations (which we are not) keep chickens at the IDEAL temperature of 72 degrees year round. That is the ideal temperature for chickens according to M.S.U. That is where their bodies don't have to make any effort to heat or cool themselves so all their energy can go into making eggs!

6 months old to 2 years is the peak egg laying time - anything after that is a bonus.

Again, the backyard hobbyist will find it difficult to keep two completely separate flocks due to area constraints. That means no free ranging? I'm also glad to hear about the heat issue. I feel my chickens are happier and more comfortable when the temp is at least above freezing. Next winter they will be warmer.

Welcome LST! Were you are Michigan State Universities Poultry Workshop today?

(I invited a lot of people to look us up here on BYC)

Chickmate - I am sorry! My children named me 'CHICKEN GRANDMA' a long time ago. Because they are the parents of our chickens so I was the grandma........ Years later I realized that everyone on BYC was very kind and patient with me - more than usual......

I know you just told me the other day how you got your name, but I still had this image of a little old grandma in my mind's eye!