Midget white and BSW uniformity

[longranger]

As has been discussed on this board there is a lot of variation in the size, color, temperament etc.. in heritage turkeys in general. That seems to be particularly true with some of the hatchery stock. For those with experience what should one expect from most hatcheries with the Midget white and BSW? Are they the "real deal" or just small white turkeys with very questionalbe origens and bloodlines? I am keeping this question general to avoid a flame thread but feel free to PM me if you have specific useful info that would create too much friction as a post in this thread.

 

[Harp Turkey Ranch]

I have not heard of any hatcheries selling BSW's. Most do carry the midget whites though. A lot of people call the midget whites BSW's but they are not. As far as the midget whites in hatcheries I'm not sure what the bloodlines are, but pretty sure they are from the real midget whites.

 

[longranger]

Thanks Harp. Good info..

I suppose it is any responsible home breeders task to breed back to standards if they get a group of birds of a specific variety that have characteristics that have drifted well off standard.

I just want to avoid inferior stock that has so much genetic influence from outside of that varieties gene pool that it is basicly starting from scratch. Up to now all my birds came from respected breeders many of whom proudly show their Turkeys.

Also want to have reasonable expectations. I chose a hatchery with uniformly positive feedback so I will hope for the best.

 

[onthespot]

Harp, or anyone who knows... is there any single defining visual difference between MW and BSW? Like for example, eye color, lenth of shank or something like that a keen observer could accurtely unsort a mixed flock of BSW and MW turkeys just by eyeballing them? I don't have a mixed flock and don't want to end up with one by accident.

 

[longranger]

You may just have to eat them to differentiate them as the MW is rumored to taste better than the BSW

 

[Steve_of_sandspoultry]

Quote:
Strombergs hatchery sells BSW hatching eggs - but they won't say where they get them from nor will any breeder admit to selling eggs to them. So who knows on that one.

The BSW by APA standard has brown eyes, I have heard that the Canadian flock has blue eyes show up from time to time. I have been researching the BSW for years now and it's hard to find info from north of the border. There is alot of "he said, she said" type info and one doesn't agree with the other. The verifiable fact part is the University of Guelph did get BSW stock from the USDA for research. When they got rid of them they just sold them off and after that it's word of mouth.

The Midgets were never admitted into the APA so it's anything goes on them.

On the US side some of the stock can be traced hand to hand from Ames Iowa, USDA reasearch station.

One thing to remember about the BSW is they were developed as a meat turkey in the 1930's and where very popular. That popularity was one of their downfalls, everybody jumped on the bandwagon and started breeding as many and as fast as they could. Look at the Marans craze, now you have all kinds of mixed matched birds throwing all kinds of sports. The same thing happened with BSW, quality of the bird declined. Then the BBW shows up and you have a bigger bird in half the time so cya BSW. At that time the USDA research station in Beltsville, MD got rid of their BSW flock, some were sold and according to some reports given away to local farmers, some went to Canada, some went to Ames, Iowa. this happened in the 50's

Ames was doing research on parthenogenesis, which is basicly a hen self fertilized egg. The offspring is 100% male - think of the boom in the turkey market, you would only have to keep a small breeder flock of hens and toms to replace older breeders. A flock of all hens would give you all toms for grow out birds. Anyway, it didn't work out. the % of fertile eggs from parthenogenesis isn't high enough to make it cost effective. Some of the Ames birds went to a USDA research station in Atlanta where they are still being used for infectious disease research - needless to say that stock is untouchable.

Another thing about the BSW of today is they don't have the same characteristics as the original BSW of the 30's. A retired USDA scientist told me "we are researchers not poultry breeders" they didn't care about growth etc so those traits weren't being bred for.

Now back to the question, you can tell the difference if you study them closely. As poults the should be stocky and blocky. They look very much like BBW but much smaller. A Midget will have smaller legs and the body will be more oblong or football shaped from the side. Here is a pic of some BSW poults.

See what I mean by blocky, stocky more round in body shape. As adults the shape is still there you just have to look harder to see it. The BSW is wider in the body, and the breast fuller.

Steve in NC

 

[longranger]

Thanks for both the explanation and history lesson. Will post some pics of the hatchery MW chicks for comparison as soon as I get them and they look presentable. They never forgive you if you take bad naked baby photos.

 

[onthespot]

Steve,thanks so much. Even from the poult pics I think I could pick out the BSW from MW adults if the proportion stays relatively similar now that I have raised the midget whites. As soon as I saw the BSW poult pic I thought to myself, those look almost like chicks. Thanks so much. As usual, this board is a never ending wealth of knowledge. Proud to be a steward of the knowledge you share with us all.

 

[Steve_of_sandspoultry]

On this pic of Midget hens you can see the oblong shape that they have.

The BSW's tend to be rounder.

Steve


Patti - We need to send you some pics of the CB's we hatched from you. They are growing like weeds and doing very well. Thanks

 

[onthespot]

That is great to hear! Go post them on that neverending marans thread! I hatched some for myself this late spring, early summer and am keeping about seven new pullets and two or three roosters too! (I am finding that the good CBM roo is very hard to get!)