Midwest Mix

[AGeese]

So here in the midwest I selected what I thought best for cold winters, and wide pastures. Currently I'm working on restructuring their quarters keeping in mind what I might need to section off for breeding/brooding.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about the rooster I'd want, and I just keep coming back to a Black Sumatra.
The flock consists of Buckeyes, Black Jersey Giants, and a Black Copper Maran.

All have qualities I'd like to see passed on such as:

BJG = Size, Plumage, Leg color, Excellent Forging, Assertiveness
Buckeyes = Pea Comb, Plumage, Excellent Forging, Spirited
BCM = Plumage, Leg feathering, Excellent Forging, Spirited

The Question: Sumatra Roo, has the plumage, long tail, Pea Comb, double spurs, friendly disposition?

As I'm likely going to order from Meyer Hatchery, the downside is they're more show, than true free rangers. I just can't get a smaller order from anywhere else who has Black Sumatra with free range traits.

Am I on track with this Roo? or are there any concerns you might add? Would you choose different?

 

[JedJackson]

Sumatras are pretty friendly, but they are not great layers, so that could be a concern if you are raising your own chicks, as the offspring would probably also not be great layers. These are fairly small chickens. They also come from Sumatra and surrounding islands, which have very warm climates. So I would do some research before making the purchase to see if they are hardy enough for your winters. Pea combs are good for cold climates, but some breeds, especially game breeds, don't carry enough underfluff to do well in very cold temps.

 

[SourRoses]

Feathered legs are not preferred for cold winters because the feathers get damp and frozen. Look at Chanteclers for a breed with strong cold hardiness genes.
A Pea Comb does help, but so does light color to improve Vitamin D production during low light winters. General health and hardiness matter too.

Sumatras are lovely (especially real breeder stock, I can link to you a FB breeders group for them if you want) but the roosters are known to frequently become aggressive. Their flying ability is impressive and could help with survival characteristics. Sumatra have been documented to fly hundreds of miles over ocean to make it to different islands! But understand the sacrifice is made in body mass vs wingspan. The genes won't make for plump eating chickens.

 

[AGeese]

Sumatras are pretty friendly, but they are not great layers, so that could be a concern if you are raising your own chicks, as the offspring would probably also not be great layers. These are fairly small chickens. They also come from Sumatra and surrounding islands, which have very warm climates. So I would do some research before making the purchase to see if they are hardy enough for your winters. Pea combs are good for cold climates, but some breeds, especially game breeds, don't carry enough underfluff to do well in very cold temps.

I'm not too concerned with high production. My birds lay when they lay, but I am hoping to select for their reproductive abilities too.

I know some of the Midwest hatcheries have them. I don't instead to have them out in the elements during the winter. They'll have an enclosure and sheltered run. My hens don't even venture out when there's a lot of snow and ice so during the winter it might be two or three weeks of all day indoor time give or take so that's where I thought smaller size might be better.

To explain, I'm not going to select for small size, but rather wanted a smaller rooster that was more manageable. Based on the idea that being raised with mature hens, and larger assertive ones might have an effect on its disposition.

Though I'm not sure if the BJG could teach it to be overly dominant with the Buckeyes who are the lower end of the pecking order. Still they're all pushing 6 lbs. And I understand the Sumatra will only be about 5.

Feathered legs are not preferred for cold winters because the feathers get damp and frozen. Look at Chanteclers for a breed with strong cold hardiness genes.
A Pea Comb does help, but so does light color to improve Vitamin D production during low light winters. General health and hardiness matter too.

Sumatras are lovely (especially real breeder stock, I can link to you a FB breeders group for them if you want) but the roosters are known to frequently become aggressive. Their flying ability is impressive and could help with survival characteristics. Sumatra have been documented to fly hundreds of miles over ocean to make it to different islands! But understand the sacrifice is made in body mass vs wingspan. The genes won't make for plump eating chickens.

I don't necessarily have to select for feathered legs, I thought it was neat after I got my BCM, but also thought looks like a potential avenue for pests and other scale problems.

I think I'm going for black/brown feathering and lighter skin. I like the black combs, but I'd be fine with both red and black.

You mention flying ability and that's another thing I left out! Yes I think that's a great asset. All the girls are pretty good flyers, particularly my BCM, but the BJG are pretty heavy so I could look to balance out size with flight.

So this will be a long term project, I'm not expecting to get what I want right off the bat and it might even change as I see what the offspring are like.

This is pretty much my FB so BYC will have to suffice thanks to your replies!

 

[JedJackson]

Yes, Chanticlers and Buckeyes are great options and are considered the hardiest of American breeds. Wyandottes are another good choice.

 

[AGeese]

I did look for Chanticleers recently, but couldn't find them. Also I can only take on a maximum of 3 more which is the lowest order I could find. So I'm planning to get 2 more Buckeyes, and 1 Roo, but would consider other breeds.

I really like the Golden laced varieties, but whatever I go with can't be too docile or they may get pushed around.

 

[JedJackson]

I did look for Chanticleers recently, but couldn't find them. Also I can only take on a maximum of 3 more which is the lowest order I could find. So I'm planning to get 2 more Buckeyes, and 1 Roo, but would consider other breeds.

I really like the Golden laced varieties, but whatever I go with can't be too docile or they may get pushed around.

I don't know if you saw this page, but it provides good info on Sumatras: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/cms/life-out-here/the-coop/poultry-breeds/sumatra

According to them, it is a hardy breed, so there you go.

 

[SourRoses]

So this will be a long term project, I'm not expecting to get what I want right off the bat and it might even change as I see what the offspring are like.

I just want to check if you know, breeding projects are pretty expensive and take space. It adds up over time, once you've raised a lot of batches of chicks. And you do have to hatch a lot to get the birds you want.

For my sorta-crazy project, 2 years in now, I hatched most months of both years. In batches ranging from 3 - 48 chicks at a time. Depending on chicken cooperation and pen set ups. That requires infrastructure (multiple grow out spaces) which is what we found the single hardest and most expensive part of making it work.

Almost all of those found new homes, either quickly or slowly depending on the nature of the trait and when it was going to show up. With the number of cockerels and selling as mixed breeds, it means rehoming at a loss, in the red, because of the feed x electric to raise them all.

I recently made it down to 21 birds, which I was really pleased with! But that's before our hatching begins again, I've had to wait on cockerels to grow up enough the last few months.

So one thing it's important to have is a really clear goal. I know of one person that started a project and changed directions a few times and is now 10 years in with birds that are kind of here-there-and-everywhere. I mean, maybe it was fun for him... maybe. But it's not exactly successful.
So are you certain of everything you want? Can you spend some time looking at pictures of different breeds and varieties, and draw some sketches of your ideal bird, to be certain?
I drew a sketch of my goal and fell in love, although my family laughed their heads off at my drawing skills, LOL. Once you have that pure vision... does it match the practical goals you set out with?
I found mine, raised in FL, is not going to be heat hardy. I love the soft floofy feathering and pea combs. I can manage the birds successfully with shade and experience, but I don't intend to market it here. Maybe they will surprise me by virtue of xzy generations being raised in the heat.
And I think I'm still 3 years out at a bare minimum to project completion. It could be a lot longer, but my "solution" to speed it up is to just keep hatching as year round as I can.

 

[SourRoses]

I really like the Golden laced varieties, but whatever I go with can't be too docile or they may get pushed around.

Have you seen Double Laced Gold Barnevelders?

 

[talkinboutchickens]

I've never had a sumatra before, but I can tell you what other breeds I recommend for you to get in the future. I will rate them by friendliness as well as foraging skills (1 is best 10 is still good but wouldn't probably be your first choice.)
1. White plymouth rock
Great free-ranger, super friendly, they aren't that afraid to pick on each other, though they are great with other chickens.
2. Sapphire gem
Awesome breed. Great free-ranger, does good confined, super friendly, great/good with other chickens. Only bad thing though- huge comb, very susceptible to frostbite.
3. Silver-laced wyandotte
Friendly, great forager, does well confined, good with other chickens.
4. Brahma
Easy-going, doesn't pick on other chickens much, pea comb.
5. Black Australorp and black sexlink
They do have a medium-sized single comb but I've never had any problems with them getting frostbite before. They are both very sweet birds, the black sexlink might get picked on.

I hope this helped.