Mixing Layer Crumbles with All Flock - Would it Hurt My Boys?

[cluckingheck]

So, I do have oyster shells on the side for my hens but some their shells are weak. I don’t know if they’re just not eating the shells or it’s not enough. I feed them Purina Flock Raiser because I have a mixed flock, but I was wondering if I could mix in a layer feed to give the girls something extra? Like, 1 bag of layer feed to 2 bags of flock raiser. I don’t want to hurt the boys’ livers or kidneys with too much calcium.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

How long do you plan to keep the boys??? Calcium toxicity is progressive...

I currently mix a game bird (24% P) with a layer (16.% P) to end up witha 20% final protein blend at about 2.4-2.8% calcium (average). None of my birds get that during their first 8 weeks, but they are fed that mix the rest of their lives. If you look towards the end of my culling project, you will find plenty of pictures of birds I'm butchering. Evidence of calcium build up is present at 6 months internally if you look really hard, and is a little more clear at a year, but I've not lost a bird to it yet (I also cull - typically - between 16-20 week, long before it has a chance to build up in quantity, but I keep breeding roos till they've had a year with the girls, meaning 16-18 mo in age without externally visible evidence of ill health.

So if those are your timeframes, based on my own experience, its a risk I'd take (and do). If your roosters are the family pet, intended to exceed 5, 7 years of life??? You may have a rooster who doesn't make it that long - or maybe not. Like smoking, no guarantees, only probabilities.

/edit FWIW i routinely have a single weak shell egg - one of my girls, her plumbing is defective. She'll be culled soon. Free ranging, the feed mix described above, plus free choice oyster shell, and she doesn't perform like her (roughly) 40 other sisters - I'm not fixing the diet, I'm "fixing" the flock. If it doesn't thrive in my conditions, I don't want it, and I don't want its progeny.

 

[DobieLover]

So, I do have oyster shells on the side for my hens but some their shells are weak. I don’t know if they’re just not eating the shells or it’s not enough. I feed them Purina Flock Raiser because I have a mixed flock, but I was wondering if I could mix in a layer feed to give the girls something extra? Like, 1 bag of layer feed to 2 bags of flock raiser. I don’t want to hurt the boys’ livers or kidneys with too much calcium.

When I have hens/pullets that have soft shells, I mix a handful of oyster shell with some Greek yogurt then put dollops of that all around their pen for them to eat. I'll then put a dollop on top of the oyster shell dispenser to draw attention to it.
You can also scatter it mixed with scratch or mealworms and they'll pick some of it up like a treat.

 

[cluckingheck]

How long do you plan to keep the boys??? Calcium toxicity is progressive...

I currently mix a game bird (24% P) with a layer (16.% P) to end up witha 20% final protein blend at about 2.4-2.8% calcium (average). None of my birds get that during their first 8 weeks, but they are fed that mix the rest of their lives. If you look towards the end of my culling project, you will find plenty of pictures of birds I'm butchering. Evidence of calcium build up is present at 6 months internally if you look really hard, and is a little more clear at a year, but I've not lost a bird to it yet (I also cull - typically - between 16-20 week, long before it has a chance to build up in quantity, but I keep breeding roos till they've had a year with the girls, meaning 16-18 mo in age without externally visible evidence of ill health.

So if those are your timeframes, based on my own experience, its a risk I'd take (and do). If your roosters are the family pet, intended to exceed 5, 7 years of life??? You may have a rooster who doesn't make it that long - or maybe not. Like smoking, no guarantees, only probabilities.

/edit FWIW i routinely have a single weak shell egg - one of my girls, her plumbing is defective. She'll be culled soon. Free ranging, the feed mix described above, plus free choice oyster shell, and she doesn't perform like her (roughly) 40 other sisters - I'm not fixing the diet, I'm "fixing" the flock. If it doesn't thrive in my conditions, I don't want it, and I don't want its progeny.

Yeah, I don’t cull ( only the butts that attack me ), so we have a different system. My oldest roo — Maude — is currently 2yrs old along with my oldest hens. Ive never fed them layer feed ( except for maybe once when I asked my dad to pick some feed up ) so it seems like I should stick with what I’m currently doing. The eggshells aren’t a HUGE problem as it’s only here and there, but I do know one of my older hens has started to consistently lay thinner eggs but that’s kind of to be expected since she’s an ISA Brown. They aren’t paper thin, but you can still tell and they’re easier to crack into a pan.

I’ll try to figure out a different way to give the girls a little calcium boost

 

[cluckingheck]

When I have hens/pullets that have soft shells, I mix a handful of oyster shell with some Greek yogurt then put dollops of that all around their pen for them to eat. I'll then put a dollop on top of the oyster shell dispenser to draw attention to it.
You can also scatter it mixed with scratch or mealworms and they'll pick some of it up like a treat.

I could definitely try that, but I know some of the bossier ones would hog it

Maybe having more dispensers with oyster shells around would help too? Because I only have one in the coop.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Yeah, I don’t cull ( only the assholes that attack me ), so we have a different system. My oldest roo — Maude — is currently 2yrs old along with my oldest hens. Ive never fed them layer feed ( except for maybe once when I asked my dad to pick some feed up ) so it seems like I should stick with what I’m currently doing. The eggshells aren’t a HUGE problem as it’s only here and there, but I do know one of my older hens has started to consistently lay thinner eggs but that’s kind of to be expected since she’s an ISA Brown. They aren’t paper thin, but you can still tell and they’re easier to crack into a pan.

I’ll try to figure out a different way to give the girls a little calcium boost

and that's I try to explain not only what I do, but why I do it, and the underlying assumptions - because there is no one true answer, or everyone would be doing it (except that one guy, because there's always that one guy...) What works for me won't necessarily work for anyone else - we all have different circumstances, different needs, and different capacities.

Good luck with your ISA Brown, they are famed for early reproductive problems, and its sounding like she is starting to show some evidence of it (ISA B and other RSL "production" breeds also have the highest calcium needs of the studied breeds, as well). I assume you feed eggshells back to them??? I find that the layers in my flock most needing calcium will run for shells, while others just sort of mosey in that direction... May offer a way to increase calcium availability w/o making it so attractive that all the birds jostle at the chance.

Whether to crush the eggshells (I don't), bake or air dry the egg shells (I don't), or whatever to discourage your flock from attacking eggs they've laid is something I leave entirely to your best judgement.

 

[seminolewind]

NO. Roosters can eat anything and what you're mixing is very very healthy.

 

[RoosterML]

High production hens (leghorns and isa brown type birds) will likely have poor shell quality if not on layer feed. I think with a 50/50 mix you will see a nice result in your shell quality. Of maybe feed the all flock but throw out some layer feed daily.
I use to be a big all flock pusher but now I do a 66%layer to 33%grower and am pleased with the results. I also have geese and a rooster in my flock.

 

[DobieLover]

I could definitely try that, but I know some of the bossier ones would hog it

Maybe having more dispensers with oyster shells around would help too? Because I only have one in the coop.

That's why I spread it all over the place in small dollops.
I also have 2 oyster shell containers.

 

[dct10]

Yeah, I don’t cull ( only the butts that attack me ), so we have a different system. My oldest roo — Maude — is currently 2yrs old along with my oldest hens. Ive never fed them layer feed ( except for maybe once when I asked my dad to pick some feed up ) so it seems like I should stick with what I’m currently doing. The eggshells aren’t a HUGE problem as it’s only here and there, but I do know one of my older hens has started to consistently lay thinner eggs but that’s kind of to be expected since she’s an ISA Brown. They aren’t paper thin, but you can still tell and they’re easier to crack into a pan.

I’ll try to figure out a different way to give the girls a little calcium boost

If the shells are paper thin, they are calcium deficient and it will only worsen over time. Calcium is a very important nutrient and does much more than provide for egg shells. It also is a key mineral to keep their hearts beating correctly. Just like humans, if your electrolytes are off, you can die of heart disrhythmia. If you simply add a handful of oyster shell into their feed every day they will take what they need and the boys will leave it alone.