Moat vs tunnel

[U_Stormcrow]

That would be great!

I concur.

 

[NatJ]

I’m planning to add a chicken moat or tunnel around my garden, trying to decide which to go with. Can anyone advise why one would be better than the other?

I'm not sure what to call it, but I would go with something big enough for you to walk comfortably in, because you will probably have to go into that space on occasion.

Also, I would make it at least 3 or 4 feet wide, so chickens can easily walk past each other without feeling too crowded or getting bullied too much. I've seen some photos of tunnels that only look about a foot wide, and I don't think that would work very well for the chickens.

If the moat is the recommended 5-6’ wide and high do the chickens fly out? What about foxes or hawks getting in? Do tunnels pose any issue being inaccessible?

Some chickens will fly over a 5' or 6' fence, but many will stay in. They are more likely to go out if they are scared or being chased, or if there is a nice board at the top so they can fly up and stand for a bit before they go down on the other side.

Yes, foxes or hawks could get in if there is no roof. Netting would probably keep hawks out. I don't know whether netting on the top would stop a fox or not (the fox might not be able to sit comfortably for long enough to rip through.) Sturdy wire mesh would certainly keep both out.

A tunnel (or any other space you cannot get to) does pose some issues. It can work fine most of the time, but every now and then you need to catch a chicken who wanted to sleep outside, collect an egg that was laid in the wrong place, pick up a piece of trash that blew in, or something of the sort. Then you can find yourself crawling on your knees in chicken droppings or mud, or trying to reach in with a rake that isn't quite long enough, or some other inconvenient workaround.

 

[Krugerrand]

Oh I need to add some new pics and some info dumps on best strategies. My 3rd building is up (a turkey shed). One more building to go, completing the most, but I need to build a fort for my kids first.

The short version is I love the way I did my hoops though. Long, yet easy to build, sturdy, relatively cheap, etc.

I'm looking forward to some updates. I found the project fascinating in the planning stages and it was wonderful to see the pictures of it coming together.

 

[kproffer]

I’d think you’d have better luck with garden pest reduction by just letting them in your garden. Bugs don’t stick to the perimeter of your garden. I was concerned about my flock destroying everything, but the are surprisingly considerate. Even sticking to running down the paths when returning to their run. LOL. They steal a few low hanging cherry tomatoes or blackberries and maybe nibble a few leaves I’d prefer they leave alone. But I let them have an hour or 2 every evening in my 50x80 garden and have no regrets. I just plant enough extra knowing i’ll lose some stuff to them. It’s a small price to pay for all the bugs they eat, including every last japanese beetle last month. Then again, my garden is not going to win any prizes, but I’m Ok with that. Just something to consider before going to the trouble of a tunnel or moat.

You must have raised yours right, mine are not that considerate! Lol! When I only had a dozen they hogged all the squash and tomatoes and I have over 30 now. I need to teach them better manners before I try that again haha

 

[kproffer]

@Krugerrand @affacat
Those are great ideas, thanks for sharing! I even have some extra cattle panels. I use them for trellises in my garden. Approximately how tall is the peak of the structure? Also, how many chickens do you have? Do they keep the grass picked down or do you have to mow/weedeat occasionally?

 

[kproffer]

I'm not sure what to call it, but I would go with something big enough for you to walk comfortably in, because you will probably have to go into that space on occasion.

Also, I would make it at least 3 or 4 feet wide, so chickens can easily walk past each other without feeling too crowded or getting bullied too much. I've seen some photos of tunnels that only look about a foot wide, and I don't think that would work very well for the chickens.


Some chickens will fly over a 5' or 6' fence, but many will stay in. They are more likely to go out if they are scared or being chased, or if there is a nice board at the top so they can fly up and stand for a bit before they go down on the other side.

Yes, foxes or hawks could get in if there is no roof. Netting would probably keep hawks out. I don't know whether netting on the top would stop a fox or not (the fox might not be able to sit comfortably for long enough to rip through.) Sturdy wire mesh would certainly keep both out.

A tunnel (or any other space you cannot get to) does pose some issues. It can work fine most of the time, but every now and then you need to catch a chicken who wanted to sleep outside, collect an egg that was laid in the wrong place, pick up a piece of trash that blew in, or something of the sort. Then you can find yourself crawling on your knees in chicken droppings or mud, or trying to reach in with a rake that isn't quite long enough, or some other inconvenient workaround.

Good points. Do you use a run or a moat yourself? Foxes are the main predator we have right now so we definitely need something secure. I don't understand how people with the open top, double fence moat construction make it work long term. Maybe they don't... Maybe that's why I can't find any follow up posts on these blogs that promote them. Definitely don't want to have to deconstruct tunnels or crawl through poo! The cattle panel suggestion is looking better and better!

 

[affacat]

@Krugerrand @affacat
Those are great ideas, thanks for sharing! I even have some extra cattle panels. I use them for trellises in my garden. Approximately how tall is the peak of the structure? Also, how many chickens do you have? Do they keep the grass picked down or do you have to mow/weedeat occasionally?

If you take a 16 foot cattle panel and hoop it about 8ft apart you have a peak at 6ft something. Easy enough to walk in for most people.

The chicken run is over 40 feet long, I think it's 11 panels. Staked to the ground, ziptied together, one grid overlapped with each new panel. It feels pretty darn sturdy because it's all interconnects in multiple ways (overlapping, stakes, skirting, etc).

We have over 50 chickens but they free-range outside the hoop most days.

Note that with 50 chickens we had 2 trouble chickens that could scale or get through cattle panel up above the hardware clotj skirting, so we put bird netting over the top.

Our ground is not level, meaning each panel isn't perfectly aligned with the previous. So if you're building it, you'll see it not be an absolutely perfect hoop. It looks perfect from outside though.

The chickens trample and peck the grass, but it's still mostly there because they spend most time free ranging. We didnt need to mow inside but if we did id probably just weed whack.

The only area that is dirt is about a foot on the yard / exit side of the hoop where they hang out waiting for us to free range them every morning


We have another run with a dozen turkies and they've pretty much killed the grass at this point.

 

[NatJ]

Good points. Do you use a run or a moat yourself?

I've never had anything that went all the way around a garden, although I've often WISHED for such a thing!

My mother's garden had a lot of trouble with creeping weeds moving in from outside, and I thought a nice bare patch around it would be a great idea! Although in her case, some of the weeds sent long underground shoots, so it would have needed to be quite wide to stop them.

But I have dealt with a variety of chicken coops, coop & run setups, portable pens, and rabbit cages. I've also read what people complain about on here. By now, I have pretty strong views about easy access to all areas

Foxes are the main predator we have right now so we definitely need something secure. I don't understand how people with the open top, double fence moat construction make it work long term. Maybe they don't... Maybe that's why I can't find any follow up posts on these blogs that promote them. Definitely don't want to have to deconstruct tunnels or crawl through poo! The cattle panel suggestion is looking better and better!

Open top construction is better or worse depending on the predators in the area. I did once have an open-top run that was fine (no local predators that would go over the fence), except the chickens got in the habit of flying up to the top board to look around, and then they would come down on the outside.

I've also had a 6 foot wood fence that failed to keep out a fox (different place, different part of the US, turned out to have different predators.)

Having a dog outside the chicken pen could also deter predators, at least somewhat. That obviously works better with some dogs than others, and against some predators than others.