Mods- please move to "Geese"?- Growing Goslings!

[Lolliegee]

I'm sorry to hear about Prissy. It's so frustrating to have an animal you're caring for die without warning and no apparent reason. Good luck with the rest and I sure hope you figure out the sex thing soon.

 

[chickenlisa]

thanks all- I sure hope so (figuring out their sexes.) If they do end up being boys, I'll need to sell or trade 4 of them so I can end up with 1:1 (boy:girl) or get more girls for him. I can't keep 5 males and only 1 female. Hope I don't have to worry about that.

 

[crazedguinea]

i agree with wifezilla, it IS definately not something you did wrong at all-my goodness look at the others and how they are thriving! i'm going to turn off my heat lamp again soon too, these last two days have been wretched cold damp and miserable though-and now by friday we'll be in the 70"S-go figure??!!! if worse comes to worse, you could re-home some of the boys-i bet you'd have NO problems...did you do that with the rhode island reds yet? i wouldn't be surprised if you could even find homes on byc for them, and nice folks too(don't know how many on here are from our areas though-nj and se pa?). i think you could and should get reimbursed from ideal though if the new ones end up as boys-i still really hope they are gals though!

 

[chickenlisa]

you guys are the best! Thanks! I still have 6 RIR baby boys to re-home. (1 didn't make it.) My 6 Goslings are doing great. They are so fun and so soft! I've never had geese, so I'm new to this really soft, thick feathering. It is amazing, and now I'm starting to know why they use goose down to stuff jackets and comforters. Its so thick! Anyways, if anyone in the NJ/Pa area needs or wants a RIR cockerel (or up to 6) let me know. I've got them.

I don't want them though.
Hopefully Ideal will come through for me if they do end up being males. I really hope they are girls though- that was my intention in the 1st place.
I'll take new pics next week and post them here and see if they look anymore like girls or boys then.
Thanks again
Lisa

 

[chickenlisa]

now, just to keep me guessing, 2 of the oldest boys (?) are growing some gray feathers on their wings and tail areas. They are mostly white already, but new gray feathers are coming out amidst the white. Any ideas? Do males get gray feathers too?

 

[crazedguinea]

boys having some grey feathers by the tail is normal i heard. too much grey is undesirable in show ganders and people have said to get pure white or very close to pure white for breeding to keep the autosexing feature well established, but since we got from a hatchery and not a serious breeder's stock-no biggie for me at this point in time-if i start breeding and selling then i might be a bit more particular. i heard when they molt they might get more grey feathers back there too or maybe they just get a little darker-guess we'll have to wait and see. deuce has a little grey back there too, it is pretty light colored but noticeable. i am still so happy with the geese-they hang out with me a lot while i do my farm chores and are much friendlier than my other birds.(why didn't i start with geese i now ask myself??!!) mine are starting to make mini-honks now too, along with the "reet-reet-reet" noises. so nothing to worry about with the greying of your young ganders-it might make it easier to tell who's who also if the grey patches are different? the girls also tend to get a bit of white on their face as they mature also.

 

[Omniskies]

I really hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you probably have Pilgrims that have been vent sexed and are just the wrong color. While Pilgrims will lose a lot of funky, improper markings with their first molt, odds are what you see is what you get once they hit about 12-14 weeks of age. Females should be grey. Period. Males should be at least 75% white (more than that, I'm being generous

and will normally have grey in the saddle area. This is supposed to be there, though it's also ideally covered by the wings.

I've been talking to people out here and found someone who bought eight or so Pilgrims from Ideal Poultry. Two of them had white wing tips, which I would never introduce into a breeding flock. One had a white chest with the white wing tips, which I've seen from a breeding trio someone bought from another hatchery (I won't name the hatchery, but the goslings were expensive and the lady insisted that, being a small hatchery, the guy had top quality Pilgrims that were genetically pure, whereas Holderread's were not - I decided not to buy them), and, of all the luck, she ended up with two whites that turned out to be females - which leads me to believe the hatchery is just throwing grey and white Pilgrims together without checking for the very obvious markings that should be culled to keep Pilgrims autosexing.

Pilgrims are a crtically rare breed. It's extremely difficult to hunt down quality stock. Pilgrims are a _color_ as much as a breed. When hatcheries ignore that you end up with geese that carry the autosexing gene and that's about it. If the breeder doesn't cull out girls with white wings then there is a chance of getting white female goslings out of her. From what I saw, I'm inclined to believe the breeder thinks Pilgrim girls are supposed to have white wings (ok, I know that's harsh, but these are my babies they're screwing with. And I'm trying really hard to turn people into Pilgrim addicts - they're screwing with that, too

.

I've ordered from Metzer and while the goslings were healthy, I was very unimpressed with the color variation in the babies. I've ordered from McMurray hatchery. Out of the eight goslings I bought from them, one had white wing tips. The color variation as babies was much better, but not top rate and I ended up having to give away the white tipped girl. I've tried to get all the genetic diversity I can and have ignored as many faults as I can get away with in order to keep that genetic diversity. But in the end Pilgrims are still difficult to find. And good Pilgrims will cost you a small fortune.

Believe me. If I thought I could build my breeding flock with Pilgrims that only cost me eight bucks I'd have 50 of them here right now. If I thought that even _a third_ of what I got for eight bucks was worth keeping I'd get 50 of them and keep that third.

It just isn't.

I'm not ragging on the hatcheries. I know that they have their part to play and I'm sure that most people who have a favorite breed grumble about what the hatchery sells - plus even more people order from them and are beyond happy with the pets they get. But honestly, when what you're selling doesn't even cover the basic requirement for the breed - being autosexed - then I begin to think that it's false advertising. What are you are selling is a mixed breed goose that carries the autosexing gene and may or may not be autosexing itself. And, on top of that, may not even throw autosexing offspring.

Sorry for the rant. It's so frustrating to see that you've had to go through this. I genuinely hope that what you got at least has the right personality.

 

[crazedguinea]

thanks for the further info omni, -but can't the males also have some grey in the tail and wings too(i'm reading from "the book of geese" by holderread) just not a lot like you said under 75% because obviously too much grey is not good(the whiter the better in ganders)? and they will get lighter in the greyer areas after the molt instead of darker? and the girls might get a little white in the face once mature?(just a little not much) (sorry sorry sorry so many questions)
i figured from a big hatchery-we wouldn't get the exact breed specific traits because well hatcheries make money from volume sold vs. a true honest breeder with intergrity who cares for the breed promotion and development-yeah they need to make money too but put a lot more time and effort into the breeding program which is why they should get their money(this is the honest ones remember not the tricksters)vs. putting out in volume. seems like the quality declines in stock with the hatcheries in all the bird breeds. i am really surprised that females could be that pale-it just seems extreme and goes against what the books and info on the web says. i knew going into it i was taking a gamble on the quality issue-but really they are very nice geese and bring me such joy. i
think they are the nicest birds i've raised and enjoy having them around- they are as loyal as can be and are so much fun. plus they are so much tamer and civilized in comparison to my guineas and peafowl. even calmer than my few chickens. if i would pursue it further i know i'll have to be much more prepared and i look at it as a learning curve , but i am enjoying them as they are because they are nice pets-like dogs with feathers.
thanks for letting me know about the females too-the advice about the white wing tips and white on the belly area-that's what my debbie is showing too-but she is my buddy and i do love her just the way she is(she's sort of my favorite one-she's named after my mom after all). it makes it easier to tell who is who among her and dumpling.
i can see why you are upset-you obviously put a lot of time and effort into your geese and aren't out there making a quick and easy bit of side cash. thanks for being like that for the breed and for newbies who are learning.
p.s. there is still hope for the breed and for us who want to get better stock-you and holderread are out there too doing your things and getting it right by taking the time to do it correctly. and dave sells eggs and stock, and you sell eggs too right?
chickenlisa-how are those newer geese coming along? how are the older ones??

 

[chickenlisa]

hey fellow Pilgrim lovers,
They are all fine. We do love them. Every time I get remotely close to their shed/pen, they start 'talking' and stretching their necks out. So Cute! We have our own conversations back and forth. I say something and they "reep reep reep" back to me, then it just goes on and on. The oldest female, Penny, is so dark still. Very dark gray at this point, but some white feathers starting on her tail area. The oldest boys are mostly white, but 2 of them are growing gray feathers too. The 3rd one (Peter) is totally white and gorgeous. The 2 young'uns (Pandora and Porsche) and pretty light; gray fuzz under white feathers growing in. They are all sweet and they get along just fine. What I'll probably do, is wait and see for now. Next Winter into Spring, I should know more who is who (girls vs boys.) If Penny stays dark and predominantly gray, and Peter stays all white, then they will be my 2 who stay or at least stay together. I may pen those 2 up then, or rehome the ones who don't color out as they should. Not sure yet. It will be harder later I'm sure, as we love them and will only grow closer to them as time passes. But I don't want to breed them or let them sit on eggs that may hatch out with wrongly colored goslings. For now, they don' t know they are boys or girls and don't care yet.

Thanks for all the info both of you. I agree with everything said.
Lisa

 

[Omniskies]

Yes, males are supposed to have grey on them. Normally they have splashes of grey in weird places until their feathers come in. Then after that a lot of the grey will leave in the first molt.

I've had a lot of trouble acquiring Pilgrim ganders with the right markings. Technically they are supposed to be snow white with a grey saddle that is covered by the wings. You can breed this saddle out of them, but from what I was able to find it's common for breeders to discard all-white males since the grey saddle helps separate your Pilgrims from your low-end (ie "small") Embdens.

Even in my flock most of my ganders aren't following that - and I've driven ridiculous distances to pick up a few of my breeding pairs from people who breed show stock. One of my ganders out of show lines has a grey lightning bolt on his neck. Another gander is nearly perfect except for a dark grey eyebrow. I culled out a lot of ganders last year that had grey wings, a grey tail, etc. Those ganders were still fine for breeding - they just had too much grey on them for the standard.

The females aren't as bad. Most of the faults I've seen are scattered white feathers in the neck. This year I kept a few older girls that had the neck markings. This year I'll probably sell them off to make room for another generation. But a female with some white feathers here and there isn't a catastrophe - just keep culling to get the nice, uniform grey color.

When the females are more white than grey then you should worry. Those are the white females you get out of a goose with white tipped wings. If they have more white than grey then I wouldn't trust them to throw the right colored babies.

I do sell hatching eggs. I'm all booked up for this year but I'm sure I'll have more available next year. I'm trying to keep the eggs and goslings affordable for people who are just getting started.