Moisture in Coop - Considering Pellets

[RoostyRoo]

This is a long post but I would love some advice as I’ve found myself in a cold wet mousey dilemma. Winter has set in and brought snow with it. Something (maybe my chickens tracking in snow mixed with the continual snow falling) is causing the coop to get very moist. We use straw bedding because I’m allergic to shavings. With it being snowy my chickens are staying inside more making it much dirtier and now it’s wet and dirty. Adding more straw to make a thicker and slower-to-soil bedding doesn’t seem like a good idea though because we have mice living and reproducing in the bedding as it is. We also want to have a thicker layer of bedding though, because our chunkiest hens have been getting bumblefoot and we think it may partially be caused by them landing so hard on the floor and scraping themselves.

I need to find a way to dry out the coop while also using a bedding that will hopefully be less inviting to mice but also hopefully provide some cushion. I was thinking of switching to pelletized bedding (https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ ) because I thought it might help, but it’s made from pine and I’ve heard that pine is toxic?

 

[NatJ]

I was thinking of switching to pelletized bedding (https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/ ) because I thought it might help, but it’s made from pine and I’ve heard that pine is toxic?

Pine is generally safe enough to use for chickens. By "safe enough," I mean you will probably not see any symptoms of any problems during the normal lifespan of a chicken.

We use straw bedding because I’m allergic to shavings.

If you are allergic to shavings, you may be allergic to the pellets too. You might want to check that before you try putting any in the coop.

 

[Ted Brown]

I think you should be investigating the source of moisture in the coop.

Because of my bias (Woods coop builder/owner) my first suspicion is lack of sufficient ventilation (hard to have too much!). However, even with a fresh air style coop I have had frost buildup inside; removing drinking water from coop to run and increasing ventilation fixed that.

Pictures would be useful to see as BYC has many folks that will offer advice to resolve your issues.

While there is differing opinions about straw many suggest that using it as bedding for chickens is not the best. While absorbent it does not release that moisture easily; mould and other pathogens can result. While expensive hemp is an option given sensitivities to pine.

That you have mice inhabiting your coop is concerning. They will help themselves to food and water, more importantly they can carry mites and sometimes lice that will transfer to your chickens and cause grief.

I encourage posting pictures of your coop and run to get feedback that may help.

Good luck.

 

[RoostyRoo]

Pine is generally safe enough to use for chickens. By "safe enough," I mean you will probably not see any symptoms of any problems during the normal lifespan of a chicken.


If you are allergic to shavings, you may be allergic to the pellets too. You might want to check that before you try putting any in the coop.

Oh thanks for the advice! I hadn’t really thought of that.

 

[RoostyRoo]

I think you should be investigating the source of moisture in the coop.

Because of my bias (Woods coop builder/owner) my first suspicion is lack of sufficient ventilation (hard to have too much!). However, even with a fresh air style coop I have had frost buildup inside; removing drinking water from coop to run and increasing ventilation fixed that.

Pictures would be useful to see as BYC has many folks that will offer advice to resolve your issues.

While there is differing opinions about straw many suggest that using it as bedding for chickens is not the best. While absorbent it does not release that moisture easily; mould and other pathogens can result. While expensive hemp is an option given sensitivities to pine.

That you have mice inhabiting your coop is concerning. They will help themselves to food and water, more importantly they can carry mites and sometimes lice that will transfer to your chickens and cause grief.

I encourage posting pictures of your coop and run to get feedback that may help.

Good luck.

Thanks for the suggestions. I have a basic raised wooden chicken coop. It’s hard to get good pictures right now because it’s so cold and snowy outside, but here is one (we have roosting and nesting boxes off to the side). The only ventilation options we have is a small window we can crack (not in the picture), the chicken door, or the human door. We usually only leave the chicken door open because it’s so cold here and we get really intense wind that we’re worried we’ll freeze the chickens.

As for the mice, they love the hay and they eat our chicken food that’s in the feeder. We thought about moving the chicken feeder outside but don’t want to attract raccoons to the chicken area.

 

[Ted Brown]

@RoostyRoo With respect you are worrying about the wrong things.

I am up in Canada, average temperature in the winter is -15C/5F short periods of -30C/-15F and lower. My coop is hardware cloth on the entire front about 8' by 4' in size, never closed. My 25-35 hens live happily in those temperatures.

Your picture shows a severe lack of ventilation; rule of thumb on BYC is 1 square foot PER BIRD. This lack is absolutely causing your moisture issues.

Chickens need roost locations that are out of any drafts that will ruffle feathers. After that the more ventilation you have the healthier your flock will be. It looks like your roosts are to the right in your picture;if there are no openings on that wall you likely have a perfect setup to remove at least one of the two windows and replace it will hardware cloth only. Don't fret just do it.

I also think I see red from a heating lamp. GET RID OF IT!! Absolutely not needed and a FIRE RISK to boot.

Here is a link to @jthornton post that has a link to the Prince Woods' book. You will find therein his description of the Woods coop that is most commonly built by folks on BYC (Woods KD Knock Down). The whole book contains references to other "fresh air" style coops plus a whole bunch of useful practical advice on chicken rearing. An easy read.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/43-chickens-and-a-dream.1334206/#post-21797631

 

[Ted Brown]

Your first post above says you have straw bedding, your last mentions hay? Which is it?

It does not surprise me that mice are infesting your coop if it is hay. Why, because hay is feed and along with chicken feed you have set up a perfect smorgasbord for them.

You mention being allergic to pine.

"For people, problems can come from pine dust in bedding or from outdoor pine pollen that gets stirred up when working in or near the coop.

• For chickens, very dusty softwood shavings (pine, especially if aromatic) can irritate the respiratory tract and may contribute to illness.

Reduce or remove pine bedding​

If the allergy seems linked to pine shavings, the most effective control is usually to phase them out.

• Many keepers switch to low-dust alternatives such as hemp bedding, chopped straw, aspen shavings, shredded cardboard, sand, or chopped corn cobs to avoid pine-specific reactions.
• When change is not possible immediately, using kiln-dried, low-dust, non-aromatic pine and handling bags outdoors with a mask can lessen dust exposure in the coop.

Improve air quality in the coop​

Good ventilation and hygiene are key for controlling airborne allergens and irritants.

• Provide plenty of draft-free ventilation high in the coop to let dust and ammonia escape while keeping birds out of direct drafts at roost height.
• Clean or rake bedding often and avoid letting it get damp or moldy, as moisture plus organic litter increases dust, mold spores, and odor that can compound allergy issues."

Your current approach is wrong on multiple counts and is compounding into multiple problems.

You should:

1. Empty your coop of all current bedding.
2. Replace at least one window with hardware cloth immediately.
3. Choose one of the bedding options above (many folks use shredded paper/cardboard and love it, search herein). If you choose pine shavings WEAR A MASK!!!
4. Read Prince Woods book (link above, download it) as soon as possible.
5. Get a feeder that prevents mice from eating the feed or setup traps enclosed in small boxes with poison to prevent birds from eating it.

With these steps you can eliminate all of the problems you have described and probably improve your health at the same time.

 

[Ted Brown]

One more thing. If you are not using drop boards under your roost you should be. Most waste from chickens is overnight, daily or very regular pickup of the waste from the board to a compost bin will significantly reduce the need to change bedding. I change once per year!

 

[Appalachickens]

@RoostyRoo With respect you are worrying about the wrong things.

I am up in Canada, average temperature in the winter is -15C/5F short periods of -30C/-15F and lower. My coop is hardware cloth on the entire front about 8' by 4' in size, never closed. My 25-35 hens live happily in those temperatures.

Your picture shows a severe lack of ventilation; rule of thumb on BYC is 1 square foot PER BIRD. This lack is absolutely causing your moisture issues.

Chickens need roost locations that are out of any drafts that will ruffle feathers. After that the more ventilation you have the healthier your flock will be. It looks like your roosts are to the right in your picture;if there are no openings on that wall you likely have a perfect setup to remove at least one of the two windows and replace it will hardware cloth only. Don't fret just do it.

I have a question about the cold. I have a coop that is completely open on the south end (into a secure run), with ventilation along the upper east side and a hatch that can be opened at the top of the north side. I closed the hatch, which is above the level of the roost bars when it dropped below freezing, and I’m thinking now that it was a mistake. We had a warm day today, so I opened up the north end to clean and air out the coop. I’ve got the hatch only partially opened in the photo, but it gives you an idea of how high above the chickens the hatch is. Should I be leaving it fully open all the time regardless of temperature? We’ll have lows around 14 Fahrenheit the next couple of nights. I don’t want to freeze them, but I also don’t want ammonia building up in there.

Also a photo looking into the coop from the open south end with the hatch fully open.

 

[Ted Brown]

@Appalachickens In a word YES but...

You need also to worry about predators. Attach hardware cloth (1/2" x 1/2" 19 gauge) to the inside of your openings (all of them!!) immediately.

It is hard to say but the roost position MAY place them in a draft location. Test with strips of newspaper held in front of the roosts where they chickens are. If they flap you could have a problem but I doubt it. The temperatures you cite are like the tropics to chickens. You could drop the roosts a bit to counter that.

You also do not want rain to intrude and wet the inside of the coop. Easy solution is to prop outside top hinged flaps open so that rain is diverted to the ground.