More trouble. - noisy breathing, lethargic not really eating

[MandS]

I'm beginning to wonder if there's something going on.....

Today another of the hens has taken a nosedive. She seemed fine yesterday and this morning I was paying more attention to her sick sister, whose got bad feet, but she didn't strike me as being out of the ordinary.

This evening, she was already indoors but came down when I arrived with scratch. But she didn't eat any. Crop empty other than a bit of liquid. Her face is covered in mud, all around her watles and the skin around the eyes. She is lethargic and of most concern is her breathing. It's noisy. I put a stethoscope under her right wing and it's quite noisy with clicking as she's breathing in and out. I don't know whether she's managed to aspirate herself or something else is going on. I've got her indoors at the moment and she's not moving around at all but I gave her some water and she's drunk that and I've just given her some mash and she is actually eating it.

It's very out of character for her and I don't know why the breathing would be noisy. To be clear, it's not noisy if you put your ear up to her mouth, but it is noisy if you put a stethoscope under her wing. She also seems quite laboured breathing.

I wracked my brains about what could be the cause and the only thing that's out of the ordinary at the moment is that I have got some rats that have managed to get into the run during the night and they are digging up lots of stuff and making tunnels. I'm not able to poison them because it could impact the chickens or indeed our cats. I'm not aware of any thing that can be caused by rats, but if there is please let me know.

The only good thing is that she is still eating mash and drinking, which if she was on death's door, probably wouldn't be the case. As they say, where there's life this hope.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

 

[Chicken_Obsesser]

Give her some electrolytes in her water. That'll help her energy levels. @Wyorp Rock @Eggcessive @azygous

 

[MandS]

There is one other thing that perhaps may be relevant. I've had flu which I've had for about 2 weeks. This is included a pretty bad cough and feeling dreadful yet you still have to look after your chickens and let them out etc.

2 days ago when I was cleaning them out, this particular chicken who is called Winnie, grabs hold of my little pinky finger and almost took the whole thing in her mouth and I remember thinking "I hope she doesn't get anything from me". Now I don't know whether these things transmit to chickens or not but I do recall that and it was 2 or 3 days ago and I was very much still steeped in flu. I still have a nasty cough.

So I wonder if this downturn in some of the hens could be anything to do with me being ill.

There's nobody else to let them out and put them to bed. Plus I was looking after hens who have got varying different problems, mainly to do with their feet and a soft shell layer.

 

[azygous]

Cold and flu are viruses that are specific to humans. They don't want to live in chicken cells. There are chicken viruses that don't want to live in us such as Marek's. But once in a great while there is an animal virus that will suddenly decide it wants to live in humans, such as avian flu and Covid. But right now, it's highly unlikely that your chicken got a flu virus from you, and I hope you're feeling better now.

 

[MandS]

Thank you for that. You kind of hope you can't pass anything on but there was this niggling doubt.....

Since I last posted, she's kind of got worse. It's dark here and she's not really settling, so I went in to check on her and her breathing is now sounding more like a hose pipe - rattling.

Thinking about this logically, this deterioration is almost like a reaction to a toxin rather than an illness per se. As her face was covered in black mud, I know that she had been digging where a rat had excavated and tunneled around a rotten tree stump. This stump is at the bottom of their stairs and it's just a hunk of wood that I put there some years ago. But the wood is obviously deteriorating underneath and the rat has managed to dig a load up and I wonder if there is something in that soil that has been dug up, like some sort of mould, or something else that has absolutely irritated her airways.

I have some vet RX somewhere but I can't find it and I think for the moment I just need her to be able to calm down. Her breathing rate is about 50 breaths per minute so it's kind of small breath panting. She's not gasping but the noise is very disconcerting.

I'm not sure we're going to make it through the night at this rate. If you can think of anything I can do that will enhance her chances, please let me know.

If they get significant lung irritation from something they've inhaled, do they recover and if so how long does it take?

 

[azygous]

There is indeed something bad lurking in the deeper anaerobic layers of soil. These organisms are infected with the botulism bacterium. It can kill a chicken that consumes these contaminated insects in 24 hours after exposure.

That probably isn't what this is, though. It sounds more like organ failure symptoms from cancer tumors.

 

[MandS]

Thanks. It's very strange - 24 hours ago she was her normal self. Only thing today is being covered in this black mud like stuff from where she's been digging...

Thanks. Just checked on her. She's not on her perch, she's come off and is standing up. Her wings are hanging down. Breathing is now between 40 and 47 per minute. She's a bit more gaspy but not sounding like a hose pipe, more a wheeze as she breathes. She's been standing now for about 3 hours in the dark. I can't do much more and I need to go to sleep myself as I'm still not right. It's nearly midnight here.

Can cancer organ failure be that quick a change? I've had cancer get some of my girl's in the past but it was slow and they declined over days or most often, weeks. If it can, that's horrifying!

 

[azygous]

Tumors can grow slowly or quickly. I've had more than my share of chickens with tumors since I have the leucosis virus in my flock. Most of the time, chickens live many years before we realize they may have tumors, and it's usually the accompanying symptoms that suddenly show up. Human cancer victims are often the same. We don't notice until the tumors start causing organ failure. We see crop issues, breathing issues, poor appetite, and generally sick. Then the end often comes soon after that.

 

[MandS]

Thanks. It's odd because she's been the epitome of health but who knows what was going on underneath.

She's still alive this morning. The rattling has stopped but her breathing is open mouthed (like when they're hot - kind of panting) and although she's been standing all night, the moment I let some light into the room, she sat down. She's not interested in food or drink. It's almost like she's gone into the laying zombie mode, where nothing distracts them. She's not laid an egg for many months and as she's nearly 4 years old, I wasn't expecting her to start again. I'm not saying that's what it is, because her breathing was terrible, but it's crossing my mind as an explanation of panting (pain) and suddenly sitting down despite being on her feet so night. Her abdomen is now quite swollen, harder and bigger than it was yesterday, which is unusual. I'm going to try to drain.

 

[MandS]

Not going too well.

I drained 350ml out of her (I stopped there but I could have taken more - but I reduced the size considerably). I have her some metacam to stop any pain and snot 2ml of water with nutri drench. I have her more water an hour later.

However, her breathing rate got worse and had gone up to about 60 (at one point nearly 75). I think she's dehydrated because she's going to need a lot more than 2ml per hour. She's not drinking herself and is basically near unresponsive unless I lift her or put the syringe down her throat.

Now I know that taking fluid out of her head not helped her hydration as the body is probably trying to replace some of it, but she clearly was uncomfortable.

I've put about 7ml into her and an planning on giving her about 5ml every half hour (if her crop isn't too full).

Other than that, I'm at a loss. I've experienced a decline this quick before. I'm sorry to repeat myself but from apparently fine and active to immobile and panting in 24 hours.

Any thoughts on what I'm doing (or if I need to improve on what I'm going) please let me know. I'm scanning this regularly to see if there's any advice.