Most productive over natural life

[speckledhen]

Quote:
Mine were from a competing hatchery. I know what you mean about the rooster. Way back when I was looking for a Barred Rock rooster, no one had one..NO one. I finally called some kid who put an ad in the paper on the off chance he'd have one and he did...complete with lice, favus, lots of scar tissue in one wattle and missing comb points from the turkey he was penned with. I took him and he turned into a top notch sire and leader for my flock, although I lost him in a weird drug reaction in April. Everyone has roosters to give away except when you really want one!
For production, the sexlinks are great layers, that's true. My purebred hatchery RIRs, Barred Rocks, Buff Orps and Wyandottes were excellent layers, too-can't do better than one egg almost every day of their lives. In fact, I lost two of the Wyandottes and my head hen, a RIR, this year, all to internal laying. They get the best of care and housing, but all were the same age, from the same hatchery, all became critically ill at almost the same time. I have a second RIR hen who is an internal layer, too, and I expect I'll lose her before the end of the year. I'd prefer that they lived much longer and didn't lay every day, even during their molts. I dont like losing my girls way too young.

 

[Beekissed]

Seeing as how the hatcheries are the cheapest and most available of the desired breeds, could one not start a little selective breeding of their own to eventually produce the desired traits one needs from these overbred heritage breeds?

Say, one buys a flock of hatchery layers, keeps them past the magic two year mark, observe for production, broodiness, health and vigor. Cull the birds that do not perform true to breed (as in what the breed should have been in the olden days), perpetuate the good characteristics with judicious breeding and, finally, regain the breed characteristics.

It sounds like there are exceptions to every rule and this could be capitalized upon, if one were truly dedicated to getting the flock they desire.

 

[chickbea]

Quote:
Good advice - but if I didn't supplement light here in the mountains of Vermont, my girls would barely get 7 hours a day of light. That's a lot of months of looooong, dark nights!

I've even pondered giving them one of those lights people use for seasonal affective disorder - expensive, though...

 

[Reinbeau]

Quote:
This is beginning to bum me out. No offense, speckledhen, but all I knew about were 'hatchery birds'. I had no source of birds that I could start out with, all at once, with a few different breeds (I wanted a mixed flock). I didn't get any hybrids (I hope)! Of course I know they aren't show quality, but are they really as inferior as I read about here?

 

[me&thegals]

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Why not hatchery birds? Is their stock inferior or breed too specifically?

 

[speckledhen]

Ok, let me clarify before I get strung up here. Hatchery birds are fine (I have them myself), but matt asked about keeping birds to a ripe old age while laying as long as possible, is basically what I heard him say. It's my theory that for the last few years, birds have been purposefully bred for high egg production, while culling ones that go broody, so you eventually end up with birds who never go broody even when it's a breed trait, generally, and who keep producing through winter, through their molt if possible, etc. They never get a natural rest period, so they burn out quicker and die from reproductive cancers, etc.
So, I'm not saying never buy a hatchery bird. If you do, I certainly would not put extra light on them to keep them laying artificially, or you're compounding the problem of reproductive issues. It's not a matter of show quality at all-I dont have a huge flock of show quality birds, but I think their breeding is better, overall, than the high production hatchery stock, breed standard aside.
SO, please understand what I'm saying! I'm not a breed snob like some I've heard, that's not it. The issue is longevity, remember. Oh, and Chickbea, I understand your predicament. You can put some low light in the coop without adding too many hours to their day, enough to keep it a bit cheerier, but not keep them pumping out the eggs till they drop.
Naturally, I am no expert, but these statements are from research and other things I've observed in my own flock. You mileage may vary, for sure.

 

[walkswithdog]

In the breed I want to keep - Partridge Rocks, I have little choice but to start with hatchery or heritage flock birds, neither being show quality.

Mostly because so far, the show PR people don't respond to emails, posts or phone calls from newbies.

I did find a source for started Partridge Cochins, but then the Cochin people have been quite friendly.

So to improve my poorer stock I'll be getting show quality white rocks and sorting and culling extremely heavily over the first several years. That's fine, I have eight dogs.

I won't be selecting for pretty showbirds that aren't also good layers and decent animals to live with.

If you can't get great quality to begin with sure, you can improve what you have with patience and time.

There's no shame in hatchery birds. Often that is what is available in any reasonable time frame.

In order to improve you have to know what you're shooting for and be willing to cull - whether that's sell, adopt out, or freezer what doesn't work for you.

If you're unwilling to cull, significantly, it's hard to make progress. If you are, then you just keep selecting toward the goal.

I want a not so simple thing, a flock that meets the APA standard, that lays very well, that forages and that is easy to live with. I'd like to win some shows along the way and leave a nice legacy stock to my daughter. I'm also going to dink with meat breeds but they're quite separate.

Starting with high quality birds takes the headaches and maybe years of work out of the whole deal. But hatchery birds do produce for you, are there while you get to your goals, that's not bad. I tend to think you learn more if you do some work at getting there on your own.

 

[speckledhen]

Yes, you do have your work cut out for you, but hey, time marches on whether you are working toward a goal or not. If you persist and are diligent you'll have something to show for all the effort.
My issue wasnt even that the birds didnt meet the APA standard. I just wanted my hatchery birds to live long lives (heck, longer than two years!) and not die of complications/reproductive issues.

 

[Reinbeau]

Cynthia, my plea was more for knowledge from the knowledgeable, I surely don't want you to feel like anyone is accusing you of being a 'breed snob'! Truly, I understand what you're trying to say. So I will keep my hatchery hens happily, but work towards getting quality birds as replacements as my hens die off. I need more experience anyways before I'll feel comfortable adding birds to my flock. I'm extremely new to all this! Again, I value your knowledgable opinion, and thank you.

 

[walkswithdog]

Cynthia's, good people. I too don't like the shortened lives of hatchery bred stock. But the chickens don't know they are short lived. We feel it more than they do. And if we do improve on them, from them, then I think we do do their lives a certain honor.

It's the real reason in my mind to breed my own, to improve because anything mass produced for extremes just isn't as healthy. Whether meat or layer stock.

Shooting for healthy long-lived chickens just makes sense.