Moving Forward- Breeding for Resistance to Marek's Disease

[seminolewind]

Hi Northie, I've sent 3, and 3 have been negative. One of them had a rare cancer. So aside from the few that died from illnesses like EYP. the rest seem to have died from suppressed immune system bugs, such as cocci, e. coli, aspergillus. I've had about 8 demises in the past 6 months and have been wracking my brain trying to see if there's a tye-in and what I've read , and learned is supposedly under 20 weeks, a bird may grow Marek's tumors and suffer the symptoms. Those that get older are all Marek's exposed, which means their immune system has been destroyed/suppressed. The vaccine only prevents the tumors. Nothing prevents the poor immune system. So you find more birds acquiring illnesses from bugs that they would have grown resistant to with age. So I believe that's what is happening.

What could have been the stressor? 95 degrees for months, in April baby geese, then the geese took all the good chicken nap spots and the chickens stayed under the carport. So I fenced the geese off. It could be the pink shirt I wore three days in a row.

So, to understand it better, it's like HIV/AIDS in the way it behaves.

I'm not sure why they were negative, but it may be that later on in life, their concentration of the virus may not be picked up by PCR, and nothing by microscope.

Cynthia, your mentioning of Caroline-the-hatchery-hen I think needs to be changed to Caroline-mother-of-many-wife-of-Suede-Queen-in-her-own-right .

 

[seminolewind]

This is my next endeavor . Just happened to come across this. (Nambroth)

VIRGIN COCONUT OIL: POTENTIAL IMMUNE SYSTEM BOOSTER FOR CHICKENS
With the recent preferences of consumers for meat or organically raised animals, many poultry raisers are increasing production of organic chickens. These are free-ranged birds that are fed organically produced feeds. As these free-range birds are exposed to natural elements, they are more vulnerable to diseases. However, these are not given antibiotics and growth promotants and are treated with herbal medicines when sick. Thus, there is a need to boost the immune system of these birds for them to withstand the disease challenge while on the range.
To test the effect of virgin coconut oil (VCO) on the immune-competence of native chickens (Gallus gallus domesticus), Campato (ESSU) quantified the gamma globulin concentration (lgG) in the blood of native chickens given VCO. LgG is one of the indicators of the presence of antibodies needed to fight infectious diseases. The researcher likewise determined the chickens’ bleeding and clotting time, which are also indicators of good health. These procedures were premised on the framework that since VCO contains lauric acid, which is the most important essential fatty acid in building and maintaining the immune system, it can boost the chickens’ immune system.
Findings

• Chickens given VCO had higher total serum protein (5.59 + 0.7 g/dl) than those without VCO (4.53 + 0.69 g/dl), which was reflective of the gammaglobulin fractions that contain antibodies. This meant that the chickens with VCO had higher antibody titers against infectious diseases. This was attributed to the VCO’s ability to remove the lipid coat of viruses and expose them to macrophages that destroy them.​
• Bleeding and clotting time (48 min. and 52.86 min., respectively) were faster in VCO-fed chickens than in chickens without VCO supplementation (66.5 min and 60.86 min). This meant that VCO-fed chickens have healthier circulatory system. These findings suggested that VCO could improve the overall health of chickens, as healthier animals have faster bleeding anf clotting time.​

VCO is therefore effective not only in improving the immune system of chickens, and making them resistant to infectious diseases, but also in improving the overall health condition of the chickens.
However, VCO supplementation does not lead to higher weight gain or to better feed conversion ratio. This may be because the synthesis of lgG requires amino acids from feeds that are otherwise sued for growth.
There is a need to conduct another experiment to test the varying nutrient densities to be able to see if the synthesis f more lgG as a result of VCO is competing with the basic nutrients (protein and energy) required for growth.
If the positive effects of VCO is further established in succeeding trials, this can enhance the value of native chicken production as well as the local production of VCO, which can redound to better income for raisers from acceptance of their organic produce.
Source: PCARRD, 2006. Highlights 2005, Los Banos, Laguna

 

[lalaland]

thats amazing. I've been following the coconut oil craze and wondering - haven't found anything as positive as you quoted in the post. makes you want to start dishing out the coconut oil, doesn't it?

 

[sassybirds]

I've been wondering about you! I still do not have a final. I'm going to have to contact the state vet and see what's up with it. Still no other birds are ill, no young ones are showing any issues, though they are roaming over the same ground as all others. The current group is up to 9 weeks old now. If that hen tests positive for Marek's, it will be the strangest thing ever and only incidental to her dying from her reproductive infection.that I would have even known it. So, I still don't know. But, I'm glad you checked back in on your thread! Sorry about the blackhead in the turkeys.

Still!? Wow, that quite a bit of time to not have an answer. I do not think they get in a hurry there! I'm glad you haven't had any more symptomatic birds. It's ok on the turkeys, I caught it in time.

My Miss Bossy looked improved last night and got some treats.  Today she was found dead.  She weighed actually double her weight. 

She was vaccinated at the hatchery.

Sorry for your loss seminolewind.

 

[speckledhen]

Still!? Wow, that quite a bit of time to not have an answer. I do not think they get in a hurry there! I'm glad you haven't had any more symptomatic birds. It's ok on the turkeys, I caught it in time.



Sorry for your loss seminolewind.

When Karen said it was taking 4 weeks to get her finals back, I decided not to push them. This next week, I will send an email to Dr. Davis and ask about the final tissue results.


Hey, Karen, Gypsy laid me a pretty light blue egg this morning! She's taken a long break but is back to work. That beautiful sweet thing will be 7 yrs old in a couple of weeks. I love that hen to pieces.

 

[chooks4life]

Was that a common occurrence or was it an occurrence secondary to Marek's damaged immune system.

Does breeding for resistance also include the Marek's exposure -causing life long suppression of the immune system ?

Sorry for your loss.

From what I've seen in my birds, some of which are pushing a decade old now, there's no immune suppression whatsoever. They're almost unreasonably hardy.

So, perhaps your strain of Marek's is different, or perhaps it's a different problem, or perhaps the vaccinated birds manifest the disease a bit differently... Lots of theories, but of course I don't know.

Personally, if you don't know the last 50 or so years of your farm's activity, I'd try to find out... Some very ubiquitous chemicals and contaminants still live on in the soil for decades after being banned, people still lose livestock to them.

By the same token if you don't know the plant life on your place quite thoroughly I'd check up on that, personally, and also try to account for factors neighbors are contributing or may have contributed.

I blocked my chickens from being able to access under houses and after that my problems went down to pretty much nil. I attributed that change to a few other things, but should have been a bit smarter than that, I know the chemicals they use under houses prevent plant growth for decades at a stretch, plus the insects, rodents etc that are habitually under there die too. No way chickens should be dustbathing in that soil then preening, nor even walking on that soil, least of all when it's wet.

Rare cancers, immune suppression, unlikely occurrences, all make me consider the history of the place. I've lived on some places that were known, proven and extremely dangerous cancer clusters before, both humans and animals dropped like flies and even over a decade later survivors are still suffering with cancer, and in most cases it was directly traceable to chemicals that had been dumped, sprayed, or used on the place a long time before.

Another issue's just common environmental toxins like lead. That stuff really is about as common as dirt in places humans occupy, and as with many other serious toxins, immune suppression is one of its actions.

Best wishes.

 

[chooks4life]

thats amazing. I've been following the coconut oil craze and wondering - haven't found anything as positive as you quoted in the post. makes you want to start dishing out the coconut oil, doesn't it?

I use coconut oil and copra pretty regularly, to control giardia in both humans and animals. (Pretty much unavoidable where we are). I've just been on a month long course myself, just to make sure I'm clear. Lost at least a kilo of internal abdominal mass which had been causing some discomfort for years. Only found out about coconut killing giardia when a relative asked me to find out how to treat it naturally, lol.

Coconut has a whole lot of health functions including feeding the mitochondria and antiviral, antibacterial activity etc... It really is one of those humble things that does a lot. Garlic is another one, commonly overlooked.

As for general immune boosters, in my experience that's a term that's thrown around a lot but seems correct in almost all its applications. Basically the best nutrition you can supply is by definition an immune booster, and the actions are quite often not at all subtle either. I've spent years testing this and that herb, always doubting the claims and always being surprised at how powerful they are. Only now am I beginning to find much scientific literature on it... It's not like it never existed, just that it wasn't 'popular' per se. But nature is full of these immune boosters. I wonder what native chickens used... Every species has its instincts about health support, tonics etc in that way. Diet is the root of most evils, it seems.

Best wishes.

 

[seminolewind]

thats amazing. I've been following the coconut oil craze and wondering - haven't found anything as positive as you quoted in the post. makes you want to start dishing out the coconut oil, doesn't it?

Well, I worked 8 years with the infamous Dr. Mary Newport , who lectured all over the world about how coconut oil reversed some of the Alzheimer's in her husband. She said that after months, the CO coats the nerves . I asked her about using it for my dog Baxter and his seizures and she told me use a tsp per 10 pounds, but increase it very slowly. About 4 months later, we noticed that Baxter had an increase in time between his seizures, and they were not as extreme. It was not a drastic difference, but to an owner of a dog with seizures, it certainly is something noticeable. BTW he has been on anti seizure medication for 8 years now, but still has them average monthly. In the past he's gone so far as to have them weekly.

She also said that it has health benefits and can be used in meals, even as a butter spread on toast.

Now all we need is one brave person to hatch some unvaccinated chicks with exposure but start them out day one with coconut oil and see what happens with the Marek's symptoms, mostly the paralysis.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
Awww, what a good girl she is! My Polish , who 3 are 7years old, and 2 are 6 years old, start early summer and I get 5 eggs from 6 girls non stop for about 3-4 months. Then a long break. And this was during the time where my main flock was getting 1 egg daily from 10 girls, ages 5-7, and 2 age 2. I think my only consistant layer with them is a Blue JG/bantam cross (neighbor's runaway chick).

Well Cynthia, the longest I've had to wait on a final result was with Fern who had a rare cancer that's uncommon to chickens. From Nambroth and Casportpony, I've heard that it can take a month.

 

[speckledhen]

I wonder if they emailed the report and I just didn't receive it. I'll check on that this week.