Moving Forward- Breeding for Resistance to Marek's Disease

[ChicKat]

You may think this from all I've been saying, but I'm not one of those "in denial" types. I want facts and I want to act ONLY on those facts, not on supposition.

I have no idea about the destination flock's status on this one. He raises heritage breeds in TN. Depending on what I find out in the end, I will tell my customer, who really wants this one cockerel in particular, a brother to one he had, and he can make his own informed decision. It's entirely up to him, though.

both are admirable - and your point about exposure doesn't mean infection is well taken and always worth bearing in mind.

 

[seminolewind]

Cynthia, I strongly think that if you had Marek's, you would have had some sign. And you don't.

I have always felt with chickens you need to KISS and not drag in all these far out possibilities. If a 4 week old chick is fluffed up and huddled standing in a corner, 99% it's coccidiosis. Not Pneumonultrasilicovolcanocoliosis.

Proof of a negative Marek's to show would be nice, but has too many variables. Better would be proof of vaccination. It's a starting point.

From Merck Vet Manual:
"Marek's disease is one of the most ubiquitous avian infections; it is identified in chicken flocks worldwide. Every flock, except for those maintained under strict pathogen-free conditions, is presumed to be infected. Although clinical disease is not always apparent in infected flocks, a subclinical decrease in growth rate and egg production may be economically important."
emphasis is mine above

My interpretation of this is yes, you should assume every one else's chickens have Marek's exposure. It's safer that way. Just as medical people wear gloves and have to assume that all patients carry HIV.

For me, the best starting point is to vaccinate all incoming chicks. Even if I didn't have Marek's. In this way I would know that my sold chicks aren;t going to places where they would die from exposure.

There are many many viruses out there for humans that there is no cure for and the only way to prevent it is by vaccination. I think we are still early in epidemic, and it will get worse. The best thing to do right now is vaccinate and protect your own.

 

[seminolewind]

I have no idea about the destination flock's status on this one. He raises heritage breeds in TN. Depending on what I find out in the end, I will tell my customer, who really wants this one cockerel in particular, a brother to one he had, and he can make his own informed decision. It's entirely up to him, though. (quote speckledhen)

I know who you are talking about and I knew of this from 4 years ago when a member's chicks started dying at the same time my chicks started dying and her necropsy confirmed Marek's. I've had a few other members contact me about this happening with chicks bought from the same place. And they did not sell eggs. You should tell your customer to hatch some eggs. Or is it worth the seller sending blood for a pcr.

A pcr as I understand it, is pretty quick compared to other methods.

 

[speckledhen]

I have no idea about the destination flock's status on this one. He raises heritage breeds in TN. Depending on what I find out in the end, I will tell my customer, who really wants this one cockerel in particular, a brother to one he had, and he can make his own informed decision. It's entirely up to him, though. (quote speckledhen)

I know who you are talking about and I knew of this from 4 years ago when a member's chicks started dying at the same time my chicks started dying and her necropsy confirmed Marek's. I've had a few other members contact me about this happening with chicks bought from the same place. And they did not sell eggs. You should tell your customer to hatch some eggs. Or is it worth the seller sending blood for a pcr.

A pcr as I understand it, is pretty quick compared to other methods.

Karen, I'm not sure you're thinking about the right person. I don't think he's very active on here. I can't even remember his screen name. He's not a big time breeder that I'm aware of. PM me, okay?

 

[Nambroth]

I totally understand the whole 'don't jump at ghosts' thing, but my family has been bitten by that many 'ghosts' (aka theoretically very unlikely occurrences) that we know better than to dismiss them now.

Someone mentioned there is no horizontal transmission from vaccinated birds to unvaccinated birds in the case of neither being exposed, as per the claim made by that poultry site, but I've read that there is some degree of it, on a few sites now (research ones, not layperson ones, lol)...

I'm off to bed now so won't spam some links, but here's some info:

This might be seen as 'jumping at ghosts' but personal experience has led me to take things overall with a bit more seriousness; if there is a possibility, almost no matter how slight, I bear it in mind. Failure to do so has brought us undone so many times now, I guess I probably am a bit sensitized to low probabilities. They've never been as low as we were counting on them being, lol!

Bit of random further reading for those interested:

Best wishes.

The rispens vaccine (which we can not get-- only hatcheries can get and administer it at this point) has a small chance of 'shedding' according to that study and a few others I have read-- but it is important to mention that it is non-oncogenic and can not cause the lymphomas, ataxia, etc....
In short, it still can not shed and cause another chicken to have Marek's disease as we understand it.

 

[tridentk9]

This is a quote from the Merck Vet manual I listed in the Buckeye thread. (BTW there is a photo of a Merek's liver in that Merck site) From Merck Vet Manual: "Marek's disease is one of the most ubiquitous avian infections; it is identified in chicken flocks worldwide. [COLOR=0000CD]Every flock, except for those maintained under strict pathogen-free conditions, is presumed to be infected.[/COLOR] Although clinical disease is not always apparent in infected flocks, a subclinical decrease in growth rate and egg production may be economically important." emphasis is mine above If that is correct, your destination flock may have Merek's arlready. We may all have Merek's and not know it. I think it is good to discuss it with the person...especially if they were looking forward to - a particular set of traits from the chickens you have for them. If we expect that all flocks have exposure to Merek's, and that our chickens are healthy despite that, we may all sleep easier.

And yet I come away with a different understanding from the quote. I admit I haven't read Merck on Marek's. Anyway- I would presume other flocks have a disease and quarantine any bird from elsewhere. To me, in this quote, it means treat as if they have the disease, not necessarily that they do have the disease. I presume a car won't stop at a crosswalk and don't step out in front of them until they do stop or go by, even in a school zone or at a stop sign.

 

[seminolewind]

I wonder about taking blood from a vaccinated older chicken and injecting into , lets say, a chick. I'm sure there's a study on it.

Well I just sent Fern off to the lab. You know it cost 18$ to pay online to overnight USPS and $33 at the post office! I am sure to get the prelim this week. I hope the vodka didn't hurt but formaldehyde doesn't hurt.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
Yes. And unfortunately, it doesn't matter how clean the seller keeps their chicks. And how many chicken people think well, chickens die, nothing you can do. And they really don't care about researching anything. It kinda goes along with how many people get birds taken by hawks, fox, coyote, etc, and just go out and replace them and say "it happens, oh well".

 

[Nambroth]

And yet I come away with a different understanding from the quote. I admit I haven't read Merck on Marek's.

Anyway- I would presume other flocks have a disease and quarantine any bird from elsewhere. To me, in this quote, it means treat as if they have the disease, not necessarily that they do have the disease. I presume a car won't stop at a crosswalk and don't step out in front of them until they do stop or go by, even in a school zone or at a stop sign.

That is how I see it too. That's a great analogy. Treat every bird as if it has been exposed, in terms of looking at it as a bio-security risk.

 

[speckledhen]

And yet I come away with a different understanding from the quote. I admit I haven't read Merck on Marek's.

Anyway- I would presume other flocks have a disease and quarantine any bird from elsewhere. To me, in this quote, it means treat as if they have the disease, not necessarily that they do have the disease. I presume a car won't stop at a crosswalk and don't step out in front of them until they do stop or go by, even in a school zone or at a stop sign.

I don't get that from the quote myself, in context. Since in context, it's speaking of how prevalent the disease is, I think they actually do mean to say they believe almost all flocks are Marek's positive.

"Marek's disease is one of the most ubiquitous avian infections; it is identified in chicken flocks worldwide" segues right into this statement:
"Every flock, except for those maintained under strict pathogen-free conditions, is presumed to be infected."


Quote:

I wonder about taking blood from a vaccinated older chicken and injecting into , lets say, a chick. I'm sure there's a study on it.

Well I just sent Fern off to the lab. You know it cost 18$ to pay online to overnight USPS and $33 at the post office! I am sure to get the prelim this week. I hope the vodka didn't hurt but formaldehyde doesn't hurt.

That's fairly expensive, but so is mailing anything anymore, especially overnight. That's why I just went ahead and drove the 2 hours; might not have saved any money but I handed her directly to someone. If it was further, I guess I'd have had to mail her. What did you use to send her in? I don't have a styrofoam cooler to use right now, but if I have to send another bird, I may buy some cheap small ones to use.