Moving Forward- Breeding for Resistance to Marek's Disease

[seminolewind]

I hate it when a report makes me have more questions than it answers. What is "moderate"? enough to kill them? not enough to worry about? I would be surprised if there was no staph and no e.coli, wouldn't you?

My oldest hen right now is either 6 or 7, I start to get confused about the years, lol. I heard someone say they had a 12 year old hen, that seems crazy to me. I wonder if it just like humans, where you might die of pneumonia, etc - in your 80's, 90's, etc.

I would say that moderate is enough to participate in death, or very close.

 

[speckledhen]

The breeder got back with me. She said she'd never seen anything like what happened with my two Buff hens, that they are getting great longevity from them, 9-10 years in their hens and 5-6 years in the roosters. So, I suppose it shall remain a mystery for the foreseeable future. I don't see that they are in any way related to these other two hens in the main laying flock since that started well over three years ago. And all others in that pen have been fine. The last hen in that Orpington group who died was almost 8 years old, had been laying a few months prior, never had any egg related issues nor anything contagious.

 

[seminolewind]

Are you saying that the 2 hens that died were related?

 

[speckledhen]

Are you saying that the 2 hens that died were related?

The Buff Orp who wasted away two years ago was a half sister to Hope, who just died a few days ago, yes. They hatched together, same sire in the breeder flock. They are somehow related to Nugget, who is still with me, I guess, same breeder, though probably a different sire. They are not related to my other Orps, the blues or Meg, the RIR/Orp hen.

The two recent hens in the main laying flock I lost, the one with the weird liver and intestines that I did not send off for necropsy, and the one who is in mid-labwork with the massive ovarian infection and some other weird findings, were also related(to each other, not to the Orps), both Isaac's daughters, the same age.

 

[seminolewind]

I've seen some "help" threads on BYC that appear to be "all my ___ are dying, but not my other breeds", and sometimes it's genetic.

I'm beginning to think the wasting is a symptom of many many illnesses. It's beginning to seem to me that older birds can die of becoming septic, or some opportunistic bacteria taking over. I'll know more as the months go by, LOL.

 

[speckledhen]

I've seen some "help" threads on BYC that appear to be "all my ___ are dying, but not my other breeds", and sometimes it's genetic.

I'm beginning to think the wasting is a symptom of many many illnesses. It's beginning to seem to me that older birds can die of becoming septic, or some opportunistic bacteria taking over. I'll know more as the months go by, LOL.

In spite of what the breeder's stated experience, my gut says that the two Orp hens' demises were somehow a genetic disorder, glitch, whatever, to do with that particular year/line/strain, something along those lines. Nugget has been fine into her old age but those two were doomed.

 

[seminolewind]

edited for rambling

 

[lalaland]

I think I want to try the cull ruthlessly when symptoms show up....such as eye color change, paralysis, thinking that this is best for the overall flock survival and future chickens. Am I off base here?

I'm trying to watch eye color and general behavior closely - its been less than two weeks since the first chicken (4 mo legbar rooster) had leg paralysis and less than a week since a vaccinated 4 year old hen had both eyes grey and some blindness. Hard to see the eyes as these are busy busy hens. Easy to imagine "different" behavior. I'm paranoid as heck. I have 17 chickens left in the flock now, which is small, but will wait and see what happens over the winter.

I hope to bring in some chicks next spring - vaccinated, keep them separate - which means keeping them in a run never used before, in a coop that was used but cleaned - but only separated from flock by say, 200 feet or so. If I understand what I have been reading, that means I would probably lose up about 40% of the chicks....

 

[speckledhen]

I think I want to try the cull ruthlessly when symptoms show up....such as eye color change, paralysis, thinking that this is best for the overall flock survival and future chickens. Am I off base here?

I'm trying to watch eye color and general behavior closely - its been less than two weeks since the first chicken (4 mo legbar rooster) had leg paralysis and less than a week since a vaccinated 4 year old hen had both eyes grey and some blindness. Hard to see the eyes as these are busy busy hens. Easy to imagine "different" behavior. I'm paranoid as heck. I have 17 chickens left in the flock now, which is small, but will wait and see what happens over the winter.

I hope to bring in some chicks next spring - vaccinated, keep them separate - which means keeping them in a run never used before, in a coop that was used but cleaned - but only separated from flock by say, 200 feet or so. If I understand what I have been reading, that means I would probably lose up about 40% of the chicks....

There are some eye abnormalities that are not related to Marek's, just an FYI for some folks. I've seen colobomas on occasion in the Delaware males, which is a congenital defect in the iris of the eye, usually only one of them. The pupil will look like it dips out of its boundaries. So, just throwing that out there for folks who panic if they see that in a bird. It does not affect their vision. Eye injuries can also cause a blown pupil.

Naturally, if you already have the disease in the flock, you'll know what you're looking at, but some people would panic at any eye problem, going to the worst case scenario.


This is a coloboma:

 

[seminolewind]

I think I want to try the cull ruthlessly when symptoms show up....such as eye color change, paralysis, thinking that this is best for the overall flock survival and future chickens. Am I off base here?

I'm trying to watch eye color and general behavior closely - its been less than two weeks since the first chicken (4 mo legbar rooster) had leg paralysis and less than a week since a vaccinated 4 year old hen had both eyes grey and some blindness. Hard to see the eyes as these are busy busy hens. Easy to imagine "different" behavior. I'm paranoid as heck. I have 17 chickens left in the flock now, which is small, but will wait and see what happens over the winter.

I hope to bring in some chicks next spring - vaccinated, keep them separate - which means keeping them in a run never used before, in a coop that was used but cleaned - but only separated from flock by say, 200 feet or so. If I understand what I have been reading, that means I would probably lose up about 40% of the chicks....

About 12/30 of my chickens were vaccinated from the hatchery. I've never had a problem with them. I got them and quarantine them for 3 weeks strictly, and another 3 weeks on the patio in a hutch. They were added to my flock and never had a problem. They are all gluttons .
3 of them are 3 years old now. My feeling is as long as you are careful with quarantine for at least 3 weeks, they will do fine.