My dream puppy, so sad - update Page 3

[Windrider]

Thanks so much Sourland! At least one confirmation that being in heat can be a trigger! I sure hope this is the case with my girl.

Oh, I got some other information about epilepsy and Shelties from my vet. Shelties are not usually listed in the breeds that most commonly have epilepsy, but epilepsy is definitely a presence in the breed. There are some studies being done on how the inherited types of epilepsy are inherited, and they are finding it is likely a different mechanism in different breeds. For example, while most breeds have a fairly even split of males and females with epilepsy, in Shelties up to 80% of the ones with epilepsy are female.

My vet also had a couple interesting stories of epileptic triggers in Shelties from his personal experience:

The first case was a Sheltie whose owners were retired and frequently traveled by RV from So Cal to Arizona and back to visit family. This Sheltie only had seizures on the ride home from Arizona to California. She had them every trip back (a dozen trips or more), but never on the trip there or any other time. That's kind of a "what the heck?" situation. Was the trigger the difference in humidity or what?

The second was a Sheltie who never had any seizure except when at the vet's office! Almost every time the poor thing would convulse as the owner was writing the check to pay the vet. Not a funny situation, but I can't help thinking that it would be more appropriate for the owner to have a fit when seeing the bill. ;-)

 

[Windrider]

Breezy, you must have posted just as I was typing. Thanks so much! Your Springer is the first instance I've found of another dog with exactly the same symptoms. Everything else online is about petite mal seizures or "fly biting." I don't know if Windy could have found some neurotoxin in my small backyard, but it could be. I am an avid gardener and have lots of exotic plants - although I am usually quick to spot when the puppy has been chewing on them! I am pretty sure that fuchsias, begonias, bromeliads, cymbidiums and epiphyllums are non-toxic. The hoyas... maybe, but I haven't seen any that look chewed and most are hanging quite high.

 

[breezy]

I didnt know I had a datura growing in the backyard. Found it completely by accident because it was growing up in a patch of Virginia creeper. Weird thing is Ive been in this house for over 20 years never had one before never had one since. I didnt find the plant chewed on either. I think she may have picked up and eaten a leaf that had fallen naturally? At any rate shes ok and Im relieved. Im sure your pup will be fine we are all going to keep a good thought for both of you

 

[NellaBean]

I have a cat with seizures. Pretty rare, from what I hear. He started having them around a year and a half old. He was from a litter of 3...i rescued his mom and the very young kittens from a shelter.....found the other 2 kittens and momma a home. All kittens were spayed/neutered at 8 weeks old. Momma cat was spayed when the kittens were about 6 weeks due to a severe wound on her belly that required sutures.

Anyways, Norman the cat started having petit mal seizures at around a year and a half. Just laying around drooling, in another world. First time it happened we had no idea what was going on. Rushed him to the vet thinking he was dying, he was fine and dandy once there. 3 weeks later, he had another. Xrays and bloodwork showed nothing. 3 weeks later, he had another. 3 weeks later, he had another.

Strangest thing ever. he was having them on a wednesday morning, one every 3 weeks. Never could figure out what may trigger them. After the 4th or 5th, each a bit worse than the one prior, we put him on phenobarbital.

That was 10 years ago. He is still alive and well and evil as ever

He has other health issues as well and we have had to adjust the phenobarb dose up a few times and now back down again, but he is a senior cat who has lived a fantastic life.

Interestingly enough, his black sister is fine and well, never had a health issue. His gray sister started acting poorly not long before or after Norman's seizures started (can't remember which now, too long ago) and vet couldn't figure out what was wrong. She was found dead in the house not long after the health issues started. After the issues with Norman, we wondered if she had the same issues just never a seizure with someone present.


The whole family wracked their brains trying to figure out what would happen every 3 weeks on a wednesday morning. Never could figure it out. After the first few, they started happening more randomly......but still very strange. He tends to have them around holidays now. Back in 2007, he had one in August near my birthday, one around Halloween, one around Thanksgiving, and one around christmas. So strange. What the heck pattern is he following.....


Good luck with your baby

 

[bagendhens]

i definatly agree given symptom and legnth toxin is far more likley than epilepsy at this stage.

some plants sap is toxic and can be ingested off the paws or fur, been walking anywhere different lately?! she could have eaisly walked in/through/on something then ingested while cleaning her paws.

epilepsy is deffinatly an odd illness...my sezures are light triggeres usually (though cerrtain scents and high pitched sound can trigger) but its only certain light squences, strobe lighting, police lights, or if the sun flashes through the trees a specific way ect...
i have a friend who cant be around macademia nuts, the very smell of them triggers a seizure. she can eat them no problem if she holds her nose..., but just smell (or getting the dust neer her nose) and she goes into full blonw gandmals...

 

[xchairity_casex]

i really hope everything goes alright!!

i know what it is like ive always wanted a bull terrier and my first pup i got at 8 weeks old he was a doll untill he started showing weird symptoms of aggression at only 3 months old i thought it was a behavioral issue but even with training it onyl seemed to get worse and worse when i took him into the vets office pain and rabies was ruled out so i took him home but he just got worse you couldnt even touch him without hi growling or snapping so i took him back to the breeder who also had no ideas what was wrong as he acted so oddly so he took him downstate to be checked out where it was confirmed he had a neurological disorder and pretty badly they decided to have him put to sleep it was heartbreaking

 

[Longhorns&Chickens]

I hope your girl gets better! Sick dogs can be heart breaking. My cousin has two golden retreiver mixes, brother and sister, and they have seizures pretty regularly. The boy has very severe ones, while the girl every fall gets a horrible rash and passes blood every fall, then she will have mild seizures throughout the year, and she looses bladder control! I feel so bad for them, and her vet can't seem to correct the problem other than by medication. the male is becoming edgy and I believe the seizures are affecting his mental health. I would love to help them, but I don't know what to do. As for me, we have bulldogs and last year we got a 5 month old male, and I loved him, he was so smart and outgoing, but the longer we had him, I noticed he was changing. I guess it was subtle, but he seemed nervous, but he was still a good dog. Then in the spring he was about 18 monthes old I really noticed him changing. My hubby and I went out of town for 2 days and my family took care of my dogs, I had 4 at the time, and they said he was awful, barking and growling, and they couldn't feed him! I knew he didn't like change and chalked it up to that, he seemed fine when I got home, just super happy to see me! Then he got a little aggresive, he wouldn't bite but, just the look and a subtle growl. I was concerned, so I started more exercise, training and kept him away from the kids just in case. I am the primary dog pack leader, and feeder, so he was always loyal to me. But then he got so he would snap at me when I went to brush him, clean his ears or even put the leash on him! It was crazy, I could put him in the car, but not take him out! My hubby called the breeder we got him from and they were baffled by it, and took him back, for mine and the kids safety, I was devastated. They worked with him and said he was doing fine, nervous of new people but seemed normal, I'm like what the heck! Then after maybe a month, he needed some ear cleaning, and he turned on them. they wound up putting him down, he was too unpredictable, there was no explanation for the behavior! Ugh sometimes I wonder why we have pets! I still miss that dog! I hope your dog is fine, I feel your pain!

 

[welsummerchicks]

I would wait and see what the vet says, though it may take more than one visit, and you may have to see a specialist.

As others said it is not always epilepsy that causes a dog to have a seizure. You may be doing some detective work in future.

The dog may have gotten some poison, or eaten a poison plant, or it may have gotten exposed to an insecticide or household chemical. She could have chewed up some batteries or tar paper. She could have a disturbance of the balance organ in the inner ear. She could have an infection or a problem with her liver. It can be many things.

When one of my dog's had a seizure, I raced her to the vet.

My vet said something I'll never forget, 'She had one seizure. You don't know if she will have another'. So it's very, very important not to get ahead or yourself. That dog never had another seizure.

Just take the dog to the vet and start the process of finding out what's going on.

You should also know that seizure medication for dogs has come a long long way from the phenobarb days. There are a good many dogs who continue on with life and do well on medications, too.

Just one foot in front of the other, try to not get upset. One seizure does not epilepsy make.

 

[skillswife]

I had a dog that was a know poop eater. I wormed my horses and didn't even think about her getting into it. She had an overdose of the wormer from the horses. She recovered fine thankfully. So there are things that your doggie could get into that would cause similar neurologic reactions.

 

[Windrider]

Just an update on Windy, who is now 8 months old. It has been a month and there has been no repeat of the neurological incident. Yay!

However, my mom did say that she saw her doing some head bobbing a week before the main incident I spoke about here (mom is home with the pup when I am not here). It was very mild and didn't last too long, so she didn't think anything of it. So that makes two incidents - Windy was in heat at that time, too, but otherwise everything was the same as usual during both incidents. Still haven't come up with any poisons or toxic plants it could have been.

So, it has been a month with nothing else happening. Windy is active and healthy and learning agility at a phenomenal rate. She is currently in a bit of a growth spurt, so it is going to be very close if she stays small enough to show in the breed ring, but that doesn't matter - she is the most gung-ho agility dog I've ever trained. I may get a MACH yet!

Here's some kind of bad photos of Windy playing with her best buddy, an 11 month old Aussie named Cheers. He is owned by the main agility trainer at our club. Man, it was tough when Windy was in heat - she definitely wanted to have Cheers' puppies, silly girl! All other males she snapped at, but she was totally into Cheers (and of course that meant they couldn't play during that time - and she carried on like a hormonal teenager).