My Easter Egger breeding project

[SourRoses]

However is the Pea comb + Blue egg linked, and the Beard gene + pea comb linked separately, or are all three of them linked? Also, all of the babies have the bearded gene but only about half have the pea comb gene. Knowing this, is there a way to tell which will lay blue eggs or not?

They are separately linked.
Pea comb is linked very closely to the blue egg gene.

The beard gene is further apart, so it is easier to break.
From my own breeding of mixes using Ameraucana, I'd say it's a lot easier. I've had quite a few bearded straight comb chicks.

Pea comb is your primary indicator of the blue egg gene. It's not 100%, but I use it in my project and it hasn't let me down yet. Due to that helpful feature of it, I wouldn't breed a straight combed bird who does lay blue, as that would spread the broken link around randomly.
If, in the future, you wound up choosing Legbars with straight combs for your project, it would be hard to tell who inherited the blue egg gene or not.

Once my selected breeders all have small pea combs (especially roos), I plan to use the genetic test for heterozygous vs homozygous inheritance. The test is about $20 each. Just so you know that's available. Some people use it sooner rather than later.

 

[LoveMyPeepers]

They are separately linked.
Pea comb is linked very closely to the blue egg gene.

The beard gene is further apart, so it is easier to break.
From my own breeding of mixes using Ameraucana, I'd say it's a lot easier. I've had quite a few bearded straight comb chicks.

Pea comb is your primary indicator of the blue egg gene. It's not 100%, but I use it in my project and it hasn't let me down yet. Due to that helpful feature of it, I wouldn't breed a straight combed bird who does lay blue, as that would spread the broken link around randomly.
If, in the future, you wound up choosing Legbars with straight combs for your project, it would be hard to tell who inherited the blue egg gene or not.

Once my selected breeders all have small pea combs (especially roos), I plan to use the genetic test for heterozygous vs homozygous inheritance. The test is about $20 each. Just so you know that's available. Some people use it sooner rather than later.

Thank you! The "Chicks" are actually around laying age although it is winter here so I don't really expect them to lay until spring. I'm excited to see what I get!

 

[NatJ]

pea comb and the blue egg gene are linked. They like to be inherited together. As the beard gene does with pea comb!

They are separately linked.
Pea comb is linked very closely to the blue egg gene.

The beard gene is further apart, so it is easier to break.
From my own breeding of mixes using Ameraucana, I'd say it's a lot easier. I've had quite a few bearded straight comb chicks.

Do you have any sources for this information, other than personal experience?

[Edit to clarify: no question about the pea comb/blue egg, but I do not think the beard gene is linked to pea comb at all.]

When I look online for a table of gene linkages in chickens, I find several genes linked to the pea comb gene, but I do NOT find the muff/beard gene in that linkage group at all.

For example:
https://kippenjungle.nl/wiki/index.php?title=Chicken_Chromosome_Linkages
This page says that pea comb is on Chromosome 1, along with the blue egg gene and a number of other things.
But it says that the muff/beard gene is on Microchromosome 27, and it does not list any other known genes there.

That would be supported by the title of this paper:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20412124/
"Sequence analysis of a pea comb locus on chicken chromosome 1 "
authors S. Sato and others
published in 2010

And the title of this paper:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4890787/
"A Complex Structural Variation on Chromosome 27 Leads to the Ectopic Expression of HOXB8 and the Muffs and Beard Phenotype in Chickens"
authors Ying Guo and others
published in 2016

 

[MysteryChicken]

Hey everyone!
I don't think I'll be breeding super soon, but I still had a few questions about the breeding genetics of Easter Eggers.

Ok, so I know that EE's aren't an actual recognized breed and that they are often a mix with ameraucana or araucana. When I do breed I would like that percent of the mix to be ameraucana(I think they are cuter). Ok time for the questions.

1. Most ameraucanas I've seen have been blue, black, or splash. Are the other colors recognized colorings of ameraucanas?

2. When ameraucanas are bred with other breeds are the beards and side muffs dominant or does it depend on the breed of the other parent? Because we recently hatched some chicks with a (possibly purebred, at least partly) ameraucana/EE that needed to be rehomed, and the moms were random and varied mixed breeds as well as 2 Rhode Island Reds. Interestingly, (or not) all 8 surviving chicks inherited the beards and side muffs of the dad.

3. According to the SOP, Ameraucanas should have a pea comb ect., but for EE's does it matter about the comb, skin, feathers, ect., because they are not a recognized breed? If this is this is the case, are all the chicks (mentioned above) technically EE?

4. If I can remember, the ameraucana/EE dad didn't have very much red on him, I think he was almost all black (I'm not sure though, we had to kill him because we weren't supposed to have crowing roosters where we live). However, one of his sons seems to look as if he could be a full ameraucana according to the SOP (correct me if I'm wrong).
Here he is (the son)(sorry the lighting is a little bad):
View attachment 4277198
View attachment 4277199
But knowing he is a mix of Rhode Island Red and Ameraucana would make him be a bad breeding option because he carries other genes with him and isn't perfect ameraucana, correct?

And finally, does anybody know the most common breeds mixed with ameraucana to make EEs, or have any breeds that you think would make good tempered cute EE Chicks?

Thank You!

Easter Eggers have been around alot longer then the Ameraucana. The Ameraucana is actually newer, since it came after.

 

[LoveMyPeepers]

Easter Eggers have been around alot longer then the Ameraucana. The Ameraucana is actually newer, since it came after.

Wait, so essentially an EE can be any mix, but now commonly has Ameraucana blood in it? Or did they breed Ameraucanas out of EEs?

 

[NatJ]

Wait, so essentially an EE can be any mix, but now commonly has Ameraucana blood in it? Or did they breed Ameraucanas out of EE blood?

"Easter Egger" is a handy term for any chicken that lays colored eggs (blue or green of any shade) without belonging to any recognized pure breed. They can be direct crosses of one breed with another, or multi-generation crosses of various breeds, or they may not have ancestors from any named breed.

Sometime after 1900, people in Europe and the United States encountered chickens that laid colored eggs (blue/green shades.) A number of people got busy developing breeds with that trait, and within a century there were Araucanas, Ameraucanas, Cream Legbars, and I think a few more. But there are still quite a few chickens that lay colored eggs that are direct descendents from those original color-egg-layers, without being bred to the standard of any particular breed. People keep mixing and crossing and selecting, and I'm confident there will be more breeds in future that lay colored eggs. I expect there will always be Easter Eggers too, just like there are mixed breed chickens that lay any other color of eggs even though we have so many pure breeds that lay those colors.

3. According to the SOP, Ameraucanas should have a pea comb ect., but for EE's does it matter about the comb, skin, feathers, ect., because they are not a recognized breed? If this is this is the case, are all the chicks (mentioned above) technically EE?

I would say the only thing that matters for an Easter Egger is the egg color. If you know for sure the color of eggs a chicken lays, I would call it an Easter Egger for blue and green (any shade) and not an Easter Egger for other colors (brown, cream, white.) If you don't know what color eggs, I would probably call them "Easter Egger mixes." It matters most if you are selling or rehoming chickens, if they are going to someone who cares what color the eggs will be.

 

[SourRoses]

Do you have any sources for this information, other than personal experience?

[Edit to clarify: no question about the pea comb/blue egg, but I do not think the beard gene is linked to pea comb at all.]

When I look online for a table of gene linkages in chickens, I find several genes linked to the pea comb gene, but I do NOT find the muff/beard gene in that linkage group at all.

For example:
https://kippenjungle.nl/wiki/index.php?title=Chicken_Chromosome_Linkages
This page says that pea comb is on Chromosome 1, along with the blue egg gene and a number of other things.
But it says that the muff/beard gene is on Microchromosome 27, and it does not list any other known genes there.

That would be supported by the title of this paper:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20412124/
"Sequence analysis of a pea comb locus on chicken chromosome 1 "
authors S. Sato and others
published in 2010

And the title of this paper:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4890787/
"A Complex Structural Variation on Chromosome 27 Leads to the Ectopic Expression of HOXB8 and the Muffs and Beard Phenotype in Chickens"
authors Ying Guo and others
published in 2016

Yes, I am basing this on Brian Reeder's book, "An Introduction to Form and Feather of the Domestic Fowl"

"Muff and beard is an autosomal dominant gene and refers to a group of feathers that grow under the beak where the wattles are normally situated, making the beard along with feathers that grow on the sides of the face below the eye and behind the beak (but not going past the earlobes) making the muff. These two areas are caused by one gene that may have a pleiotropic effect. This gene is closely linked to the pea comb gene (P)"

"A single gene causes both the muff and the beard. This is an example of pleiotropy and not linkage. The gene, when heterozygous, shows variable expression and so some birds may appear to have one or the other, but in most heterozygotes and all homozygotes, both traits express together. This trait is common among show breeds. Orloff, Faverolle, d’Uccle, Houdan, as well as some Polish and Silkie express this trait. It is an autosomal dominant that is linked to the pea-comb trait, blue egg color trait, and to the Pattern gene-Dark brown-Melanotic color complex. The linkage with pea comb and blue egg is fairly tight, though separation can and does occur as demonstrated by breeds that have muff/beard, single comb, and lay brown eggs. The muff/beard trait is also thought to reduce the size of the wattles. My experience suggests a straightforward, autosomal dominant gene with variable penetrance in heterozygotes. Davenport studied the trait in 1906, and Serebrovsky and Petrov studied it in 1930. They considered it an incomplete dominant autosomal gene. Hertwig proposed the gene symbol Ba in 1933, but Hutt proposed the symbol Mb in 1949, which was accepted and is more commonly used today (Crawford, pgs. 175-176)."

(I would have liked to add the page numbers, but I have the kindle version which only shows location.)

 

[NatJ]

Yes, I am basing this on Brian Reeder's book, "An Introduction to Form and Feather of the Domestic Fowl"

"Muff and beard is an autosomal dominant gene and refers to a group of feathers that grow under the beak where the wattles are normally situated, making the beard along with feathers that grow on the sides of the face below the eye and behind the beak (but not going past the earlobes) making the muff. These two areas are caused by one gene that may have a pleiotropic effect. This gene is closely linked to the pea comb gene (P)"

"A single gene causes both the muff and the beard. This is an example of pleiotropy and not linkage. The gene, when heterozygous, shows variable expression and so some birds may appear to have one or the other, but in most heterozygotes and all homozygotes, both traits express together. This trait is common among show breeds. Orloff, Faverolle, d’Uccle, Houdan, as well as some Polish and Silkie express this trait. It is an autosomal dominant that is linked to the pea-comb trait, blue egg color trait, and to the Pattern gene-Dark brown-Melanotic color complex. The linkage with pea comb and blue egg is fairly tight, though separation can and does occur as demonstrated by breeds that have muff/beard, single comb, and lay brown eggs. The muff/beard trait is also thought to reduce the size of the wattles. My experience suggests a straightforward, autosomal dominant gene with variable penetrance in heterozygotes. Davenport studied the trait in 1906, and Serebrovsky and Petrov studied it in 1930. They considered it an incomplete dominant autosomal gene. Hertwig proposed the gene symbol Ba in 1933, but Hutt proposed the symbol Mb in 1949, which was accepted and is more commonly used today (Crawford, pgs. 175-176)."

(I would have liked to add the page numbers, but I have the kindle version which only shows location.)

That is interesting. Given the other sources saying there is no linkage, I am more than a bit puzzled.

Have you hatched enough chicks to check the numbers and see which version the numbers indicate?

Where he says the muff/beard is "thought" to reduce the size of the wattles: I've read elsewhere that it DOES reduce the size of the wattles. And when I look at photos of breeds with muff/beard and no pea combs I do not spot big wattles on any of them. There aren't even that many with small wattles visible. For example, I'm looking at pictures of d'Uccle and Polish. For Polish, they can have beards or no beards. I find roosters with big wattles and no beard, but I cannot find any that have a beard and big wattles. It's small wattles or invisible wattles any time I see a beard. I'm checking ones with no pea combs, because pea combs reduce wattle size too, so we wouldn't know which gene caused how much of the effect.

I haven't read that book, so thank you for quoting it

Edit to add another study I turned up:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119468971
"Locating Pea Comb and Blue Egg in Relation to the Centromere of Chromosome 1 in the Chicken"
By J. James Bitgood in 1985
This was mostly studying pea comb and the blue egg gene, trying to make a more precise estimate of how closely they were linked. There was a third gene involved that I'm not familar with, that they were trying to use to help figure it out (also linked to pea comb and blue egg). But I found this statement:
"Muffs and beard (Mb) introduced from the Araucana grandparents was also segregating. Table 3 presents the linkage analysis for combinations involving Mb, P, O, and T. Independence was found in all cases."

There is a table showing their results. If I'm reading it right, they had a sample size of more than 300 birds, which should be large enough to show a linkage effect if one exists (at least if it were a close enough linkage to matter to anyone dealing with a backyard-scale flock.)

 

[SourRoses]

That is interesting. Given the other sources saying there is no linkage, I am more than a bit puzzled.

Have you hatched enough chicks to check the numbers and see which version the numbers indicate?

Where he says the muff/beard is "thought" to reduce the size of the wattles: I've read elsewhere that it DOES reduce the size of the wattles. And when I look at photos of breeds with muff/beard and no pea combs I do not spot big wattles on any of them. There aren't even that many with small wattles visible. For example, I'm looking at pictures of d'Uccle and Polish. For Polish, they can have beards or no beards. I find roosters with big wattles and no beard, but I cannot find any that have a beard and big wattles. It's small wattles or invisible wattles any time I see a beard. I'm checking ones with no pea combs, because pea combs reduce wattle size too, so we wouldn't know which gene caused how much of the effect.

I haven't read that book, so thank you for quoting it

I agree it's very interesting that the sources disagree...
Perhaps a matter for further investigation.

It seems fairly normal for his writing style that he put it as "thought to" when the information was coming from outside his experience. He seems to conduct a lot of breeding experiments and that is the information he considers most solid.
I got the book and somewhat rely on it due to his reputation in the community, but that doesn't mean he's always right.

As far as my own results, I'm not certain enough due to all the variables. And I don't know what number would be needed to confirm it (?).
Possibly relevant, my recent hatch from White Faced Black Spanish (huge comb and wattles) with pea comb / beard hens.
I am not certain of the homozygous/heterozygous status of those hens, which may be a critical factor in drawing conclusions (do you agree?).
I wrote quite a bit more, but realized I was totally derailing this thread. If you want to chat about it more, I don't mind an extended derail in my Smurf Project thread, or we could start a new one?

 

[McChooky]

My preference is to have a healthy flock of predator savvy chickens that lay a lot of colored eggs .Easter eggers are a good fit for me.
I would love to have a couple with muffs and beards.The Easter eggers chicks I ordered online didn't have any muffs and beards .I was very disappointed